Next Total War Possibilities

[A Very Super Market]

Que pasa?

I don't know what you mean by that, but the Warring States and Three kingdoms eras were very short. Let's talk... Middle of the Han dynasty.


AqD, who cares? That's like saying, don't imagine anything. Obviously, we realize that Rome couldn't get there, since if they could, we wouldn't be having a what-if discussion.

[SwissBarbar]

True true. Weren't the Sassanids the only people that was "granted" a right to exist independent from Rome? I remember having read sth. like that somewhere, but I have no sources ready.

[A Very Super Market]

Rome didn't have much contact with the Chinese, since their contact with the silk trade was from Middle Eastern middlemen. They didn't know about our great empire, really.

Oh, go to the wikipedia and click on some of the sources. They are really interesting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Roman_relations

[Kara Mustafa]

I would like to see something like Persia TW starting around 6th century BC with Persians, Medians Babylonians, Egyptians, warring Greek states, etc.

Otherwise Dark Age TW would be cool too. Cordoban caliphate, Carolingian empire, Great Moravia, Old Magyars...so many possibilities

[bobbin]

Personally I would like to see one based around the warring states. One based around the Mongol conquests would be good too. The main argument against a total war game set in the east is that the mainly western fans of the games would not be interested but I think mongols are well known enough to overcome that (rather weak) argument.
My gut feeling is that the next game (after expansions) will be Rome 2 or maybe another gunpowder era game then Rome 2.
If it is another gunpowder game then I'm not sure where they'd go WW1 and WW2 would require a massive change to the point where it essentialy would not be a total war game, that leaves you with either the renaissance or the early modern era (Crimean and American Civil wars both happend during this period).

[Africanvs]

Personally I would like to see one based around the warring states. One based around the Mongol conquests would be good too. The main argument against a total war game set in the east is that the mainly western fans of the games would not be interested but I think mongols are well known enough to overcome that (rather weak) argument.
My gut feeling is that the next game (after expansions) will be Rome 2 or maybe another gunpowder era game then Rome 2.
If it is another gunpowder game then I'm not sure where they'd go WW1 and WW2 would require a massive change to the point where it essentialy would not be a total war game, that leaves you with either the renaissance or the early modern era (Crimean and American Civil wars both happend during this period).

I don't know, I wouldn't say no one in the west would be interested in a game set in Asia. There are a lot of games set in the east that have been big hits in the west such as Romance of the three kingdoms, Shogun total war etc. By now CA has had so many hits, they can afford to be a little sentemental anyway and release a game based on their first. But you're probably thinking in terms of a game that is historically accurate not being as interesting to westerners. You know CA is going to have crazy Samurai using killer death finishing moves, invisible ninjas, and huge ships with cannons on them to make it look cool and market it to as many people as possible. Although maybe they've turned over a new leaf. From what I can tell ETW is the most historically accurate yet.

[IrishHitman]

America doesn't have horrible unemployment and tons of marginalized Muslim imigrants.

Actually, America has worse unemployment and even worse immigrant problems.

America has looser laws on laying people off, Europe has stricter laws...
Muslim immigrants talk the talk, but there are no armed Muslim gangs going around European cities.

There is no "Florencia 13" ridiculousness.

[aem91]

I would like to see an Antiquity Total War, stretching from spain to china, and as far south as sri lanka and sub saharan africa. That way it would be like 3-4 games roled into one, and if Rome happened to conquer all of europe it could move onto asia

Plus I think th EB team and CA team should work together to make a game that is both marketable yet fun and historically accurate.

[Macilrille]

Irish, have a look at Danish news these past two months if you think there are no armed Muslim gangs in Europe. Too bad for nice and well-integrated people. There is a post a bit down and with links in this Blog http://jrc-1138.blogspot.com/

Anyway, that again is neither here, nor there, this is a forum for discussions of Europa Barbarorum.

[IrishHitman]

Irish, have a look at Danish news these past two months if you think there are no armed Muslim gangs in Europe. Too bad for nice and well-integrated people. There is a post a bit down and with links in this Blog http://jrc-1138.blogspot.com/

Anyway, that again is neither here, nor there, this is a forum for discussions of Europa Barbarorum.

I don't trust blogs.

[Macilrille]

LOL @ you then, there are many an interesting and informative blog around. Saying you do not trust Blogs is a gross generalisation much like saying you do not trust newspapers cause you have have read some tabloids...

But follow the links to the Newspaper articles then. Or I can find lots of them for you in Danish, or trust my word, for I live here and the problem exists.

It does not belong in an EB Forum though. So I hereby desist from more comments in this thread.

I can edit though when my word is doubted.

Notice that UK has issued a travel alert for Copenhagen.

Second- largest public service channel in Denmark, http://nyhederne-dyn.tv2.dk/krimi/ar...-20831906.html, Danish though, sso not much use to you.

Largest Newspaper, yes the one with the drawings, so biased, but nonetheless valid, English, http://jp.dk/arkiv/?id=1634052&eceEx...E&eceArchive=o
http://jp.dk/arkiv/?id=1626797&eceEx...E&eceArchive=o
http://jp.dk/arkiv/?id=1620544&eceEx...E&eceArchive=o
http://jp.dk/arkiv/?id=1619193&eceEx...E&eceArchive=o
http://jp.dk/arkiv/?id=1608622&eceEx...E&eceArchive=o
http://jp.dk/arkiv/?id=1607425&eceEx...E&eceArchive=o

Its socialist/Politically Correct opponent Politikken, in English, http://politiken.dk/newsinenglish/article670782.ece
http://politiken.dk/newsinenglish/article670782.ece
http://politiken.dk/newsinenglish/article670782.ece
http://politiken.dk/newsinenglish/article660331.ece
http://politiken.dk/newsinenglish/article659881.ece

Be so kind as to never doubt my word again, I am a man of enough honour that I have risked my life for it and my word is good.

[IrishHitman]

LOL @ you then, there are many an interesting and informative blog around. Saying you do not trust Blogs is a gross generalisation much like saying you do not trust newspapers cause you have have read some tabloids...

Interesting and informative they may be, but until you can provide links to respectable newspapers or other news media that prove there are organised muslim gangs operating in Denmark, I won't believe you.

And I do mean organised, crazy fundamentalists who want to do honour killings don't count.

Furthermore, the difference between a couple of lads in Denmark compared to the many MANY immigrant gangs in the US is quite telling.
My point still stands.

[bobbin]

I don't know, I wouldn't say no one in the west would be interested in a game set in Asia. There are a lot of games set in the east that have been big hits in the west such as Romance of the three kingdoms, Shogun total war etc.

Oh no i completely agree with you, its just that whenever there is a discussion about the next TW that seems to be the most common response against a Asian game.

You know CA is going to have crazy Samurai using killer death finishing moves, invisible ninjas, and huge ships with cannons on them to make it look cool and market it to as many people as possible.

Ha! maybe we'll get Zheng He's treasure fleet of wooden supertankers.

[Apázlinemjó]

A Total War game about the Mesopotamian city states' wars before Hammurabi's time?

[antisocialmunky]

Actually, America has worse unemployment and even worse immigrant problems.

America has looser laws on laying people off, Europe has stricter laws...
Muslim immigrants talk the talk, but there are no armed Muslim gangs going around European cities.

There is no "Florencia 13" ridiculousness.

Actually, I just checked the '08 numbers, its about the same with Europe slightly worse by .2%. I can't find a well sourced 2009 EU one:-\.

This pointless conversation has been good and fun but its not going to lead anywhere and just spam up this thread. I don't think anyone is going to convince the other about the country they live in being better. Atleast not with the shenanigans of sweeping generalizations. :-)

You know, Asia:TW is always shot down because people think there is no interest but it keeps getting brought up. There's no reason not to do an Asia:TW in place of a SII:TW because of how big the scope of TWs are now.

[Cyclops]

The TWE engine tends to favour a "rise and rise" scenario where one power conquers a whole gaggle of others. Its a simple narrative arc: powers slug it out until one is left standing. Unifying japan is a good one, and the Rise of rome is the supreme example. Strangely enough MTW worked (sort of) because of the frequent revolts (especially when a good king died and a dumb heir inherited) and reviving states.

Examples of a "rise and rise" period of warfare are: Iron age ME (from Assyria to Persia) maybe 800-500 BC, Warring States (476-256, 220 years is long wenough for a good game) china (less diversity but genuine tactical development and cool ancillaries like Sun Tzu), Rise of France (Clovis to Charlemagne) battle for hegemony in the ruins of the western empire between franks, Muslims, Northmen, Saxons, Avars, great cultural diversity but less of a visible "tech tree" in fact more of a "tech loss tree" as the cities are nerfed. Winner gets a crown from the pope (or they can behead the pope if they prefer).

If you can get the revolt mechanism right, then other "balance of power" scenarios could be viable. Early Modern europe TW has a multitude of eras and narratives in the span 1500-1700. You'd have Spain, Turks, HRE, France, England.

How about Luwian Total War, the struggles of the Hittites to control Arzawa, fend off Urartu, keep the Egyptians out of Syria and stop the Ahhiyawans from getting revenge on Alaksandas (or is it Piyamaradu) in Wilusiya? Not much of a tech tree there either, maybe a step from Bronze age to Iron age.

[Cyclops]

...Ha! maybe we'll get Zheng He's treasure fleet of wooden supertankers.

Classic. If they base it on that wonderful fantasy 1421 then there'll be icebreakers and "stealth junks" that can visit Europe and civilise it without ever being detected.

However Chinese history (real history, not crank theories) is an amazing and fascinating subject and well worthy of being explored in game form.

[desert]

Classic. If they base it on that wonderful fantasy 1421 then there'll be icebreakers and "stealth junks" that can visit Europe and civilise it without ever being detected.

However Chinese history (real history, not crank theories) is an amazing and fascinating subject and well worthy of being explored in game form.

Wait...are you saying Cheng Ho didn't exist?

[jnabb22]

personnally the best would be IRISH:total war then we could have drunk irishmen running around slautering all the other barbarians and romans that would be awsome but maybe thats just me =D

[ziegenpeter]

I would really like Heiliges Römisches Reich: TW (I know thers a mod, bt its not finished). playable would be the 7 price electors(right word?) and maybe some of their more important vassals. Unplayable the surrounding factions. But thats maybe more an expabsion for MTWIII...

[IrishHitman]

personnally the best would be IRISH:total war then we could have drunk irishmen running around slautering all the other barbarians and romans that would be awsome but maybe thats just me =D

Irish Warfare pre-gunpowder was boring...

Except for when the Vikings dropped in.

[Olaf Blackeyes]

Vikings are ****ing fun!

I would absolutely LOVE to see and Asia TW of SOME type to replace STWII.

[penguinking]

Has CA confirmed that there will be another Total War game?

[Cyclops]

Wait...are you saying Cheng Ho didn't exist?

Wait...didn't you read my post?

I think the voyage of the Chinese treasure fleet is one of the most fascinating episodes in world history, a knife edge moment when a great power rolls its influence out in a kind of international thunderclap. It ranks in its potential with Columbus and Da Gama's voyages...you wonder what might have been if the policy had not been so firmly reversed. According to the EEP/AGC boys over at EU then they'd have suffered a -7 stab hit and a monster revolt increase but acquired Muslim (or was it Orthodox?) Tech.

However "gilding the lily" and pretending that the fleet visited Antartica or the moon or Italy is just embarrassing and degrades the discipline of history. I was refering in particular to the silly notion that Junks somehow sailed across the north coast of Asia to Scandinavia.

[desert]

However "gilding the lily" and pretending that the fleet visited Antartica or the moon or Italy is just embarrassing and degrades the discipline of history. I was refering in particular to the silly notion that Junks somehow sailed across the north coast of Asia to Scandinavia

.

0_0 Never heard that one before.

Sorry for the misunderstanding, it was kind of ambiguous.

[bobbin]

It a book called 1421 by a guy called Gavin Menzies, it makes some fairly ridiculous claims based on some very shakey linguistics, non existant or disproven archeology (one structure in australia turned out to be a 150 year old retaining wall) and what basically boils down to his own opinion presented as fact.
His book also states thet he is an expert on chinese history despite not being A: able to read chinese or B: a historian (he's a retired royal navy captain if i remember correct).

He's also relased another book about how it was china that started the renaissance which from what i've heard is even more flawed.

[athanaric]

I think that there are quite a few Europeans and Americans who would like to play a TW game set in Eastern Asia. Also, what about Japanese and Koreans? Surely a lot of them would actually buy such a game, instead of pirating it?

As for a Rome II Total War, I don't believe it will be made. At least not during the next five to ten years.

[antisocialmunky]

It a book called 1421 by a guy called Gavin Menzies, it makes some fairly ridiculous claims based on some very shakey linguistics, non existant or disproven archeology (one structure in australia turned out to be a 150 year old retaining wall) and what basically boils down to his own opinion presented as fact.
His book also states thet he is an expert on chinese history despite not being A: able to read chinese or B: a historian (he's a retired royal navy captain if i remember correct).

He's also relased another book about how it was china that started the renaissance which from what i've heard is even more flawed.

I think that one of my friends told me to read that. He said it was fairly interesting summary of the Fleet until the author goes off the deep end starts talking about Trans-Pacific Voyages.

[IrishHitman]

Wait...didn't you read my post?

I think the voyage of the Chinese treasure fleet is one of the most fascinating episodes in world history, a knife edge moment when a great power rolls its influence out in a kind of international thunderclap. It ranks in its potential with Columbus and Da Gama's voyages...you wonder what might have been if the policy had not been so firmly reversed. According to the EEP/AGC boys over at EU then they'd have suffered a -7 stab hit and a monster revolt increase but acquired Muslim (or was it Orthodox?) Tech.

However "gilding the lily" and pretending that the fleet visited Antartica or the moon or Italy is just embarrassing and degrades the discipline of history. I was refering in particular to the silly notion that Junks somehow sailed across the north coast of Asia to Scandinavia.

It was more impressive than Columbus or Da Gama...
They had a military and trade purposes as well as exploration...

[Cyclops]

.

0_0 Never heard that one before.

Sorry for the misunderstanding, it was kind of ambiguous.

No wucks. There's a general information defecit on Chinese history thats pretty embarrassing, so I understand if you react to just another guy seeming to downgrade the acheivemnets of a major world culture.

I think interest in Chinese history is increasing and games on the subject will become more viable commercially.

Comparisons are invidious of course but its hard not to "line 'em up" and rank "Rome vs China vs Persia" etc and its hard to position them in my mind. Not that i want to rank them from 1 to 10 or anything...actually I do. maybe in amore complex or appealing way, but I want a top 10. Top 10 what? I don't even know.

Part of the probelm is the Yellow Rivers relative isolation from the other 3 great cradles of the Old World (the Indus, Mesopotamia and Nile). A great culture like persian has cast a cultural shadow over central Asia and Northern India, and heavily contributed to Islamic, Turkic, Greek and numerous other cultures and subcultures. Of course they are the heirs to preexisting Mesopotamian and Indus cultures. When Greeks and persians collide, first Cyrus wins a partial victory, then Xerxes gets stymied, then Alexander scores a Heroic Victory, so if you want to rank them militarily, theres a clear outcome. Culturally you can talk about Persia's amazing literary legacy (esp. poetry) and as a court language across many cultures, vs Greeks tradition of systemic thought which is so important in science. Which one wins? Maybe Greek but by golly its a close run thing.

With China the outside contacts are more tenuous and you can't say Legions ftw vs crossbow chariots. China famously absorbed anyone who ever conquered them (well mostly) so were they militarily weak, culturally strong, or what? Definitely worth exploring those ideas in a game format. How do you model Manchu or Mongol overlords becoming Sinicised? Not to mention the interesting ideas of trade-as-diplomacy, and the mandate of heaven.