The Curia

[The Celtic Viking]

"Allow me to quote you:

Did your mama not give love to you?

If that was not an attempt at insult, then I fail to see what your point was."

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

OOC: Sorry 'bout that, it's not easy to keep track of who's who when you're writing as someone else than your character, and you don't point it out as well. Fixed to make sense.

[SwissBarbar]

OOC: Yes, sorry, I was lazy ^^ To me it's clear, that Avlvs is here during Sessions, and outside the sessions it's Lvcvllvs.. but you could not know.


Oh, that must have been a slip of the tongue, I apologize for that. Now let's get to business in a polite way, shall we.

[The Celtic Viking]

"Yes, lets. So, seeing as you represent Avlvs Aemilivs and his opinions, why is it you think he would not care about the soldiers in Legio II, with whom he has fought for so long, as to keep them away from their families even longer? They are battle weary and need some private time, and forcing them to wait even longer would not be right. They have earned their rest.

But that seems to be what you, and thus in extension Avlvs Aemilivs, is supporting. This I cannot understand, and it is not the behaviour of someone I would want as a commander. Thus I wonder, if this truly is Avlvs Aemilivs position, if he really is such a good candidate for the command of Legio II after all."

[SwissBarbar]

They have rested now for over 3 months. Other legions are serving as long too. After all they're soldiers. They're rested, almost full strenght, and nearest to this area

Actually I don't represent his opinion, I'm only his friend. I have my own opinions, which could accidently be the same as his

(OOC: caesars soldiers were away 7-8 years from home... no argument therefore. And the men of all our other legions are too)

[The Celtic Viking]

"They are not professional soldiers, and they need to see their families again. 'Resting' in the field doesn't solve that, and it keeps them from their farms, their shops, or whatever their actual profession might be."

(OOC: Caesar didn't go to war with Camillan units, so you really can't compare him and his army to ours.)

[SwissBarbar]

They're in Taras, actually....

And what about the other legion's soldies? They've not been at home too for a long time.
Why should we not send the legion that is nearest to the aeria of conflict?
Why should we not send the legion and commander who know the ground there?
Why should we actually send a legion, that is more far away and waste time?

I don't see any sense in this. Except of course for personal achievements of some senatores against their political enemies

[mini]

Norbanus rose

"I have yet another proposition received from Qvintvs Aemilivs. He will present this in the next session, but wishes to make it publically now so it can be debated already

I. Legions will only serve 3 sessions in a row (36 turns/9years). After that, all units will be disbanded and new units will be created. The legion will then consist of new raw recruits only.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Once we reach the marian reforms, this clause will be annuled. Camillan/Polybian units are actually farmers, only the marian armies are 'professionals'. The earlier armies need to be disbanded regularly. We need farms to produce children!!! (+ we do not want to fight with uberexperienced legions, the AI is alrdy disadvatnaged enough by being retarded)

II. Units may no longer be retrained. Understrength units may only be merged with other units. This is to avoid the experience bug in RTW when retraining

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

example of the bug:
1 unit Hastati containing only 5 men left, with 2 silver chevrons.
When retrained, there will be 120 men with 2 silver chevrons. This makes it looks like the raw recruit added into the unit, are actually hugely experienced veterans. Quite unreal.

When merging however, the game calculated the average experience and gives the new merged unit this average experience. Far more realistic. Plus, combined with the rule above, all military matters present a bigger drain on our treasury, making sure we don't expand too fast. And the impact of losses on the treasury, will prevent generals of using their troops too lightly.

You can expect these edicts by Qvintvs Aemilivs next session."



Norbanus seated again

[The Celtic Viking]

"Taras is still not back home in Rome, Lvcvllvs. As for your questions, the other legions should be treated in the same way, of course. I thought that was obvious? I have already told you why we shouldn't send those soldiers there. Studying maps and using local guides is not a skill that is hard to master, not so that Caivs Avrelivs is the only one who can do it. Finally, when have I ever said we should send a legion from 'far away'? Stop putting words in my mouth."

[SwissBarbar]

You misunderstood me. I did not mean that you said so, but that's what I thought Norbanus was proposing

[Iskander 3.1]

Gentlemen, perhaps we can compromise here. An Epirote army is headed towards Roman-held territory, and debating will not slow their advance. If we can muster troops to deliver a decisive victory--even if this means using Legio II for one more battle--we may then be able to send the message to Epiros that further resistance will be futile. This is an opportunity to deliver a fatal blow without sending an incursion into their territory. We can then force a peace treaty on our terms, the men of Legio II may return to their homes and families, and we can focus on our war with Carthage.

[The Celtic Viking]

Pvblivs laughs.

"It feels like I'm speaking to deaf ears here! The Epeirotes will not sign a peace treaty while we occupy Ambrakia. Would you have us sign one if they occupied Rome?

No, they will fight until they either get Ambrakia back or fall in their attempt. Even if - and that's a big if - you manage to establish peace with them without giving it back, the peace treaty wouldn't be 'on our terms', and it certainly would not be a peace we could trust at all. We would still need a strong presence there, or they'd just attack. It's naive to think otherwise."

[Iskander 3.1]

As one who is less experienced, I do not wish to commit to one idea without hearing additional options. And this idea I just presented was mearly an idea. Another option would be to sell them back their city at a hefty price, perhaps a 50 year tribute? Again, I am merely considering all avaiable options.

[The Celtic Viking]

"I respect that, and I apologize for my hefty reaction. I should've had more grace, and I regret that I did not.

Selling them the city back in exchange for peace and gold would be the best choice as I see it."

[SwissBarbar]

"With all due respect, honourable Pvblivs Atilivs, but men of Legio II did not die taking Ambrakia, to sell it afterwards. Now we have access to the great harbour. We should not give it up because of a small Epeirote army. We are overreacting, let's not panic because of these few enemies.

After all we are talking about this:"

Lvcvllvs unrolled a copy of the Consul's report and read out the description of the hostile army.




"Romans do not tremble to such a - excuse the expression - crappy "force". I consider it proven, that you're no coward, Pvblivs Atilivs. Therefore I don't understand, why you would sell the rich city of Ambrakia because of this.

Actually, reconsidering this, we shan't send any Legio at all, at least for now. The provincial defending forces should be able to deal with it.

Therefore we can proceed with re-recruiting our legions - all our legions."

[Iskander 3.1]

It is quite alright, Pvblivs Atilivs. No offence was taken.
Exomnivs then turns to speak to the Senate as a whole
Both of these men speak valid, legitimate arguments. Perhaps others members would like to give their input? We need ideas, and we need them fast. There will be long-term consequences regardless of how we choose to act. Therefore it is in the best interrests of the Republic as a whole for us all to consider which actions to take.

[/Bean\]

The old Senator Horatius Galcratus stands.

What exactly is the strength of the forces under Roman control in Epirus? Can they be trusted to stand against their former masters?

[The Celtic Viking]

Pvblivs laughs heartily.

"If that's what Cnaevs Cornelivs calls 'an elite army', I wonder what he would call Alexander's army! My dear Lvcvllvs, since I was working with faulty reports, I will honourably withdraw from this debate. This is not such an emergency as it had been made out to be.

However, I still stand in my position that we should sell Ambrakia back. It is regrettable that Romans have had to die taking Ambrakia, but that's not a reason to let more Romans die defending it indefinitely."

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

OOC: YES, Pvblivs laughs a lot! Deal with it, and don't be such sad clowns!

[navarro951]

"Taras is still not back home in Rome, Lvcvllvs. As for your questions, the other legions should be treated in the same way, of course. I thought that was obvious? I have already told you why we shouldn't send those soldiers there. Studying maps and using local guides is not a skill that is hard to master, not so that Caivs Avrelivs is the only one who can do it. Finally, when have I ever said we should send a legion from 'far away'? Stop putting words in my mouth."

OOC: You make it sound like every soldier comes just from Rome, we role play that our avatars are in Rome while there half a world away sometimes, but we cant RP that the troops go home for a bit? Since legio II has been in Taras, its been two turns, meaning they have already been home 6 months. Also, on the whole "elite" thing, when i clicked on them i only saw one unit and the general, I figured it coulda been a nice small force, guess not. I dont toggle_fow due to realism, cept for library changes. Anyway, on the legion thing, id like it to stay as is, they come home simply for a commander change so people can work there way up reasonably.

[Iskander 3.1]

At the risk of sounding authoritarian, I must insist that we discuss and vote on the matters of new legion commanders as well as the Epirote expedition as soon as possible. The rest of the world will not sit by and wait for us, you know.

[SwissBarbar]

"Seconded!" Lvcvllvs said

"Actually, is any of this about to happen, except for Legio II, which had obeyed to its orders?

from the Office of Military Advisors.

Legio I Apulia: Orders are to establish a defensive position in Tolosa, retrain, and commision a new commander.

Legio II Latium: Orders are to capture the city of Ambrakia, wait to establish a garrison there, and return home (OOC: Any Italia province.) for an order of leave. After which, a change of command will be proclaimed.

Legio III Campania: Orders are to retrain, and await Consul Manivs Cicero's orders to invade Sicilia.

Consular Legio I Roma: Orders are to change command to Consul Manivs Cicero, retrain, and lead the fight into Sicilia.

Legio V Italia: Orders are to be trained, commissioned, be given a commander, and await further orders from the senat

If not, I shall write a letter to Avlvs Aemilivs and recommend him to take Legio II back to Epeiros or to join the invasion of Sicily. It's not possible that only 1 legion has to answer the call of the Senate."

[The Celtic Viking]

"Do I have to remind you that neither you nor Avlvs Aemilivs have the authority to do such a thing? It is completely outrageous that you speak of breaking our holy laws as if it was a trivial thing to do. Without the senate's permission, Legio II is to go nowhere, and as far as I know, Avlvs Aemilivs has not even been given command over it. It would thus be 'two treasons for the price of one', so to say. You may correct me if I'm wrong on that part, but even if I am, that does not make your belief that you and Avlvs Aemilivs can act on your own accord without the senate's consent any better. That stands true no matter what any other commander has or has not done."

(OOC: According to the rules it is the CoL who appoints commanders, so that's everyone. I haven't seen him IC proclaim you as the new commander of Legio II, so AFAIK you're not.)

[SwissBarbar]

Yes you're absolutely right, but it's not possible that Legio II is being odered home, and then nothing is being done..

(OOC: You're right, I'm not appointed as commander, but I'm a bit annoyed how things are going, therefore I decided to put an outrageous matter to discussion here, in order to keep at least the curia active.)



Edit: Hey TCV, where's your spirit? I'm shocked

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

Legio I has secured Tolosa, and we are just waiting on a new commander and new orders. We need to get this over with, Our legions have been sitting around twiddling their thumbs for far to long.

[The Celtic Viking]

"I agree. A new commander should be appointed, and new orders should be given. Personally I think Legio II must go back to Illyria and defend our holdings there. That's where I stand on things."

(OOC: If you will allow me to equivocate, it's in my stomach right now. But, since you answered before I managed to declare my changed mind, I've restored it and answered in this way. Shouldn't create too much bickering. )

[navarro951]

FROM THE GM:

Here are my standing orders lol (we need to get this going)

Legio I Apulia will be under the command of TCV. (Dux Regvlvs)

Legio II Latium will be under command of Swiss. (Legatus Mamercvs.)

Legio V Italia will be under desert. (Legate Appivs Nero)

if there is any bickering take it directly to me.

[desert]

Wait, what! Holy crap, I've barely been paying attention to orders and all that!

Alright, I'll go find out what I have to do.

[desert]

Ok, so I have nothing to do.

I dunno how I can read every post in the Curia and still have no idea what's going on.

This is all OOC, by the way.

IC:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Quintus Sertorius stood. "Senators, may I have your attention please!"

"The esteemed and honorable Senator Appius Claudius Nero wishes to thank the Senate for appointing him commander of Legio V. You have his assurance that he will do his utmost against the enemies of Roma and will lead the Legio to glorious victory. You have made a very wise decision."

[SwissBarbar]

"Also Avlvs Aemilivs let you know, that he is honoured to be entrusted with the command over Legio II."

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

(I wonder how Mooks and Tiberius will feel about not getting chosen comander again....)

[/Bean\]

(I wonder how Mooks and Tiberius will feel about not getting chosen comander again....)

Legio III will need new commanders next session. I would vote for either one of it's officers to take command, for the same reason that I would vote Avlvs take the Legio II. It is far safer for the men of the legion if they know and respect their commander.