The fight for Inishmore [Concluded]

[Greyblades]

Dead musing: maybe ATPG is getting it wrong on purpose?

[Andres]

This doesn't sound like the usual ATPG to me.

Also, basing votes on the write-ups is usually not a good idea. And you're a more than decent writer yourself, ATPG.

ATPG ignoring an accusation?



What is this world coming to? O tempora, O mores!

[Askthepizzaguy]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

If everyone threw you a bone every time you asked, you could open a glue factory.

Well, see here's the problem though. How many times have I asked you guys to throw me a bone? No, actually, I am being serious. Think about it. How many times? This goes out to everyone out there. I've asked and asked, but I've ended up ignored or dead most of the time. I can ask until I am blue in the face, but I usually end up blue and green and bloated and rotting.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Dead musing: maybe ATPG is getting it wrong on purpose?

I assure you, I am trying my best. That's the sad part. I don't see a whole lot of effort from others, though, and when you guys give me abysmal choices like last round, you can't exactly blame me for the results.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

ATPG ignoring an accusation?
What is this world coming to? O tempora, O mores!

Since you're never here, I didn't see the point. I've dealt with my fair share of accusations this game, and I'm done. You've had two chances to lynch me. Round one, and the round where I asked people not to vote for boudica when she and I were tied. You'll get another chance next round. Either make good on your accusations, or direct them towards some people who haven't been pressured all game. Have a pint.

To respond to your point; I am a good writer, but there are limits to what I can do. When I was reading those writeups, I had to keep an online dictionary handy in a second tab just to figure out what some of the words mean. They were put in there deliberately, because even educated people don't use them in casual conversation. However, someone who already is versed in high-level concepts (and I will admit, is on a higher intellectual plane than myself) could easily have produced the writeup. Since I know I did not do it, I felt it was actually more productive to accuse the people I felt were responsible. Someone in the English mafia knows his stuff, so kudos. But at the same time, I believe you guys did narrow down the list of suspects, because people who speak English as a second language did not write it, and people who have never ever spoken with that level of sophistication, I tend to rule out as the authors as well. Why is that such a stretch?

If you guys keep not lynching me, eventually one of the mafia families will get tired of me and murder me. So I still fail to see the point of responding to every accusation, especially the accusations I consider rather lazy, to be frank. No offense intended.

[Andres]

To respond to your point; I am a good writer, but there are limits to what I can do. When I was reading those writeups, I had to keep an online dictionary handy in a second tab just to figure out what some of the words mean. They were put in there deliberately, because even educated people don't use them in casual conversation. However, someone who already is versed in high-level concepts (and I will admit, is on a higher intellectual plane than myself) could easily have produced the writeup. Since I know I did not do it, I felt it was actually more productive to accuse the people I felt were responsible. Someone in the English mafia knows his stuff, so kudos. But at the same time, I believe you guys did narrow down the list of suspects, because people who speak English as a second language did not write it, and people who have never ever spoken with that level of sophistication, I tend to rule out as the authors as well. Why is that such a stretch?

If you guys keep not lynching me, eventually one of the mafia families will get tired of me and murder me. So I still fail to see the point of responding to every accusation, especially the accusations I consider rather lazy, to be frank. No offense intended.

You need a dictonary to understand your own language?

[ULC]

You need a dictonary to understand your own language?

The dictionary is close to one of the most useless collections of paper because you must know how to spell the word before you actually look it up, to spell it correctly

However, if there is a word your not familiar with, it's good for that.

So, Andres, where do you go to figure out what a word means when you yourself are not articulate with it or understand it's underlying concepts?

[Askthepizzaguy]

You need a dictonary to understand your own language?

You know how messed up the English language is. And yeah, I do, sometimes.

YLC, you started with a suspect list before you had to leave one day. I'm listening.

[Andres]

So, Andres, where do you go to figure out what a word means when you yourself are not articulate with it or understand it's underlying concepts?

My native tongue is Dutch and I understand it perfectly. If I stumble upon an unusual word (and that happens seldomly), then I can make up the meaning out of the context.

It just strikes me as strange that one has to look up words from his own native tongue, that's all

[Askthepizzaguy]

Perhaps people put some thought into it when they were creating the Dutch language.

English, especially the kind spoken in the USA, is a butchered hodgepodge of all kind of various languages, themselves butchered hodgepodges of other more ancient languages. And some of the more advanced words, which I sometimes cannot understand from context, I have to look up.

Example; made up word.

"On the table there was a snarfledingle. It was perhaps the most unusual one I've ever seen."

I'd pull a dictionary for that one.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

My native tongue is Dutch and I understand it perfectly. If I stumble upon an unusual word (and that happens seldomly), then I can make up the meaning out of the context.

It just strikes me as strange that one has to look up words from his own native tongue, that's all

What does "vicissitudes" mean?

However, I would say that words that have to be looked up in the dictionary while reading, can just as easily have been looked up while writing.

Pizza, I don't think pursuing writeup leads is a good idea at this stage of the game. Last round stagnated in part because of it imo, and it's much more effective in the late game. Plus, now that you've told the mafia who you think is capable of writing it, if you're wrong they're sure to leave that person alive.

edit: well, I understand if you think Reenk is the only person who could have written it. I don't think you can prove that though.

[Askthepizzaguy]

What does "vicissitudes" mean?

I looked it up, and I have to say, I'm still fuzzy on the concept.

However, I would say that words that have to be looked up in the dictionary while reading, can just as easily have been looked up while writing.

If they were totally random, perhaps... but then you'd notice a completely off-the-wall word stuck in there deliberately without flowing naturally from the context. For example:

"I was out all day, and after work, I returned home to my house and ordered a pizza. No one else was there. And so, I felt forlornness."

If someone who does not naturally use the words in question tries to accomplish the fake of appearing more intelligent or well-read than they are, there would be obvious, or perhaps less obvious but still apparent, signs. Do you really get from that writeup that the person was faking their knowledge? I don't. And I never, ever, speak with such eloquence, even when I am trying to do so. Call it WIFOM if you wish, it's just a fact. I could never reproduce the writeup in question, even if I had a thousand monkeys working at a thousand computers until the end of time.

Pizza, I don't think pursuing writeup leads is a good idea at this stage of the game. Last round stagnated in part because of it imo, and it's much more effective in the late game. Plus, now that you've told the mafia who you think is capable of writing it, if you're wrong they're sure to leave that person alive.

Sorry, I disagree. You have your methods, and they work. I have mine, they work sometimes. Best to have at least two different approaches. Better chance of success that way.

edit: well, I understand if you think Reenk is the only person who could have written it. I don't think you can prove that though.

Now that's interesting, Sasaki. You know full well there is no such thing as proof in a mafia game. Even detective reveals can be false. Even detectives can be insane, and get false results. No one is sure of anything, and in my games, people have roles they aren't even aware of.

Sasaki, you know better than to ask for proof. All I can offer is evidence.


edit: post 1000 woo hoo!~

[Yoyoma1910]

Such byzantine flummery!


Could you all further extrapolate on the germane qualities of the philolgical understandings of the various contributors to this thread?

My cranium is overjoyed by this crapulent smorgasbord of diatribes and dissections.


Definitely leading towards a real sockdolager.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Case in point. That sounds like it's constructed, not natural.

Writing contest: See if you can write something original which meets the standards of the writeup I refer to.

[Yoyoma1910]

Call it WIFOM if you wish, it's just a fact. I could never reproduce the writeup in question, even if I had a thousand monkeys working at a thousand computers until the end of time.

Judging from the results of countless studies on primates, I would have to classify this statement as accurate.

[Askthepizzaguy]

STOP STUDYING ME!!!

Just because I am a primate, that is no reason to treat me like a laboratory animal.

[Reenk Roink]

Care to actually respond to my critiques of your linking the said writeup with certain posts of mine Atpg?

You seem to be obfuscating the situation here and your recent posts serve only to aggrandize Greyblades' comment.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Care to actually respond to my critiques of your linking the said writeup with certain posts of mine Atpg?

Nope!

Sorry, buddy, but you "refused to answer my fascist questions." You reap what you sow.

You seem to be obfuscating the situation here and your recent posts serve only to aggrandize Greyblades' comment.

I'm sorry mister Reenk Roink! Please don't 'urt me! Oi promise Oi won't miss the next tax collection sir... hail the English king and all that. I'm afraid I haven't got 'aff a farthing to my name, sir! Eets quoite a problem ween Oi want to buy some bread. But Oim 'appy to eat the scraps from yer table sir! Oi'm your loyal terryer, sir!

If I moight beg yer pardon though sir, woi don't yew respond to moi criticisms befour esspectin' me to respond to yours...

OW!!! Don't 'urt me sir, please, Oi won't speak out 'o turn again, sir.

[Diana Abnoba]

Now, now boys, settle down, we can get the ruler out and measure the length of your... umm... "words", but I think this battle of egos is counterproductive.

[Reenk Roink]

No problem. It is pretty tough to defend the indefensible. Better just joke post reply and hope the issue goes away.

I certainly wouldn't want to defend a case that used five non write up posts, three from one game whose special context was discussed, and two from a non Mafia discussion to justify why the writer of those posts was also the writer of the said write up. After all, the actual write ups of that writer actually argue against the purported link; best not use more relevant examples if they argue against the conclusion.

I certainly wouldn't want to defend a case that used the taunts to Mafia which turned out to be the writer himself as examples of an "upturned nose" attitude and then erroneously conflate and equivocate the two very different things going as far as to take a joke made by the writer that was in retrospect aimed at the writer himself and try to pass it off as "delight[ing] in calling people inept or stupid or otherwise demonstrating his own intelligence at the expense of others when he writes."

[Askthepizzaguy]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

No problem. It is pretty tough to defend the indefensible. Better just joke post reply and hope the issue goes away.

I certainly wouldn't want to defend a case that used five non write up posts, three from one game whose special context was discussed, and two from a non Mafia discussion to justify why the writer of those posts was also the writer of the said write up. After all, the actual write ups of that writer actually argue against the purported link.

I certainly wouldn't want to defend a case that used the taunts to Mafia which turned out to be the writer himself as examples of an "upturned nose" attitude and then erroneously conflate and equivocate the two very different things going as far as to take a joke made by the writer that was in retrospect aimed at the writer himself and trying to pass it off as "delight[ing] in calling people inept or stupid or otherwise demonstrating his own intelligence at the expense of others when he writes."

If it's so indefensible, why are you attempting to defend yourself? You're just repeating yourself; a common accusation made of me. Why not just joke post reply again and hope the issue goes away?

[Reenk Roink]

If it's so indefensible, why are you attempting to defend yourself? You're just repeating yourself; a common accusation made of me. Why not just joke post reply again and hope the issue goes away?

Because as we have seen before, if someone asserts something, no matter how devoid of any actual plausibility it may be, over and over again, as you do, it may certainly convince others.

Happily, the majority of people remain unconvinced. I am not willing to take any chances though, my survival is critical to my mission in this game.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

The point of my last post was that this discussion is pointless, and better left till later rounds if at all.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Because as we have seen before, if someone asserts something, no matter how devoid of any actual plausibility it may be, over and over again, as you do, it may certainly convince others.

Happily, the majority of people remain unconvinced. I am not willing to take any chances though, my survival is critical to my mission in this game.

So, why do you insist on responding, then? First it's better to ignore me, then to joke post and hope it goes away, then to state a defense, then to ignore me, then to repeat said defense, then to say there's a reason you have to defend yourself, and then you say it's no big deal, because people aren't listening to me.

Mmmm circular logic.

[Reenk Roink]

White eyes, who has a very colorful and distinct writing style, played games with the analyzers of the text the entire time through GF3. The lesson apparently has been ignored.

So, why do you insist on responding, then? First it's better to ignore me, then to joke post and hope it goes away, then to state a defense, then to ignore me, then to repeat said defense, then to say there's a reason you have to defend yourself, and then you say it's no big deal, because people aren't listening to me.

Mmmm circular logic.

You really have no idea what you are talking about Atpg. You can accuse people of "circular logic" (I fail to see how it is applicable) all you want, it just shows your inability to defend your case.

You also ignored the last statement about taking no chances, but what more do I expect from your pick and choose cases? I have already had the experience with SkyNet...

[Askthepizzaguy]

I responded to that point already. I'll spare everyone the roll eyes smiley.

[Reenk Roink]

I responded to that point already. I'll spare everyone the roll eyes smiley.

Unsatisfactorily.

[Askthepizzaguy]

You really have no idea what you are talking about Atpg. You can accuse people of "circular logic" (I fail to see how it is applicable) all you want, it just shows your inability to defend your case.

I don't need to defend my case, I just need to state it. My work is done. And since it will go ignored, I don't see why you're getting so defensive.

You also ignored the last statement about taking no chances, but what more do I expect from your pick and choose cases? I have already had the experience with SkyNet...

Yes, of course; but if your defense is now "I've been wrong before", it's also meaningless because it has no bearing on this game.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Unsatisfactorily.

Have a balloon.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

White eyes, who has a very colorful and distinct writing style, played games with the analyzers of the text the entire time through GF3. The lesson apparently has been ignored.

Even by white_eyes himself, who went after yoyoma this round based on the writeup. Your post count is down this game white_eyes.

[Reenk Roink]

I don't need to defend my case, I just need to state it. My work is done. And since it will go ignored, I don't see why you're getting so defensive.

Yes, of course; but if your defense is now "I've been wrong before", it's also meaningless because it has no bearing on this game.

My critique of your case is not you've been wrong. Do you intentionally misinterpret ever post just to be able to respond?

My case is clearly that you pick and choose statements to make a case, and the last sentence served the rhetorical end of reminding of how this has been seen in the past.

[Askthepizzaguy]

My critique of your case is not you've been wrong. Do you intentionally misinterpret ever post just to be able to respond?

If you state your case more clearly, I can respond better. Or you can ignore me as you suggest is the best course, since everyone else does.

My case is clearly that you pick and choose statements to make my case, and the last sentence served the rhetorical end of reminding of how this has been seen in the past.

Sorry, I don't live in the past.