inuit lancers(!!)...

[Slaists]

Hey, CA, come on... Inuit lancers!??? An ARMY of Inuit lancers(!!) in the polar freeze of Northern Labrador!??? Well, I quite understand that the CA tried to depict the fact that the Inuit's were much better accustomed for the snowfields of Northern Canada, but lancers(!!)... What did they feed their horses with? Moss? Seal fat?

There are other options (to make fighting Inuits more challenging) available too:

1) give the inuits (some historically more truthful version of their armed forces) huge defense/stamina/morale bonuses IF their armies are fighting in their native lands.

2) give the outsiders (the europeans) huge defense, stamina, morale PENALTIES if they are fighting in such harsh conditions as the Arctic OR the forests of Huron, Iroqouis, etc.

3) combine #1 & #2....

But lancers(!??), CANONS(!??), savages drilled in ligning up and marching!? If modders can easily implement AOR principles and realistic ethnic flavor, why cannot CA do the same?

As to lancers: is there ANY historic evidence that native Americans used ANY horse lancers at any point in time?

Sigh...

[A Very Super Market]

No.... they didn't even have horses back then.

Nearly everything about the native factions is horribly inaccurate in ETW. I do not care for the North America theatre because of this.

[Thermal]

Well lets be fair, they did capture weapons from war, guns and cavalry, but not until late in the camipaign and certainly not with those tactics.

[ainamacil]

CA is the Baron Von Steuben and the French Government of 18th Century native factions! They're providing training and weapons!

As for natives capturing guns and other things from Europeans, what kind of training would they have had in firing a cannon? I'm not saying they're stupid- I probably would have no idea how to fire a cannon either, having never done it before. Also, where would they get more gunpowder/shot from?

Logical issues aside, I think giving native factions tech beyond their means levels the playing field (albeit in kind of a lazy, uncreative way, but CA did spend like YEARS on this game. I'm willing to give them that shortcut). It seems a little silly, but not quite as silly as steam ships in 1750 or Indian officers riding elephants into battle, so I'm willing to put it down to CA's usual quirkiness.

I don't think they ever set out to make a history simulator. They made a fun game instead. I'll take that tradeoff.

[rajpoot]

Well, even before ETW was released we had in one screenshot a unit of what looked like Light Native Infantry formed up in rank and file with rigid European discipline.........
I don't even want to start on what has been done to the Maratha-Mughal units.......buuuuut this is an old issue......accuracy vs gameplay. CA keeps the balance fine alright.

[NimitsTexan]

Here's hoping CA manages, in a later patch to rebalance the factions just a little, so at the very least the major Euro powers are tough opponents and the Huron and Cherokee cannot go toe to toe with the Grande Armee.

[Slaists]

Well lets be fair, they did capture weapons from war, guns and cavalry, but not until late in the camipaign and certainly not with those tactics.

Well, let's be fair: capturing a canon does not mean one knows how to use it (ballistics, for example) and has plentiful ammunition to practice ;)

[Vlad Tzepes]

I hear Inuit people had a genius scientists who taught them how to shoot ice cubes. That solved nicely the ammunition issue.

[Redemption]

I'm just shivering with expectation at the ETW expansion - Empire: Inuit Invasion!

After having united all the lands in the Americas, the mighty Inuit Horde launches its historically accurate conquest of Europe!
New regions - Includes feudal Japan, theatre of some of the most valorous feats of the Inuit Grande Armée!
New units - Seal clubbers, bear cavalry and dinosaure tamers!
New research - Such as Laser gun! PEW! PEW! PEW!

[Thermal]

Well, let's be fair: capturing a canon does not mean one knows how to use it (ballistics, for example) and has plentiful ammunition to practice ;)

well, lets be fair, if they saw some weird European use it, they probably have an idea of how it works

[Slaists]

well, lets be fair, if they saw some weird European use it, they probably have an idea of how it works

Including trajectory calculations and making their own shots? ;)

[Mr Frost]

well, lets be fair, if they saw some weird European use it, they probably have an idea of how it works

That doesn't explain how they managed to avoid destroying the gun by over charging it with powder {a problem for even some trained gun crews at the time} nor how they managed to get enough iron for the cannonballs {never mind should they somehow aquire grape} to even get in a bare minimum of practise , let alone enough for even one battle .




For a well documented theater and period of warfare that serves well as an illustration of the topic :
When the Maroi whom fought the British managed to capture cannons , they still had the problem of not knowing at first how to make gun powder . After they learned how to make the propellant , they then found they never had enough ammunition for a battle so had to use scrap metal and rocks which meant the weapon were nothing more than nusiance "weapons" that could only anoy and sometimes frustrate the Brits into charging the Moroi forts where in close combat the Moroi {the meme about Island Boys being rather beefy and good brawlers is actually based on fact} could match the better equipted British .

The problem also extended to muskets and rifles in that there was never enough ammunition {lead doesn't grow on trees , and stone-age technology cultures have little incentive to even know of the existance of lead intill they encounter higher technology peoples} .

This is what makes their achievements in the three major wars they forced the British Empire to fight with them so impressive , they really were always at a massive technological dissadvantage {as were the American Indians Vs all their European and U.S. opponents} .










Realistically , the American Indian native roster musket units should have only half the ammunition of their European counterparts {inluding the Native Auxiliary units as they would have been suppilied by their employers} and their cannon {which should be almost as rare as an honest politician} should not only have fairly limited ammunition and very poor accuracy and reload times , but also it might be best to create new sub-standard ammunition types for them . Their artilery capabilities generally sucked by a big margin and {compared to their European and U.S. opponents} continued to do so right up to the point when the last tribe was defeated .
Again , that they held on as long as they did deserves great respect .

To keep them a credible threat in the game , give their archers and musket men good melee , perhaps ballance their defense and attack a bit better {the European line infantry did not wear any armour , not even helmets -those things on their heads are made of thin felt or cloth- whereas some indians did -wood and bone and sometimes thick hide/cloth- and some would carry shields} so after the muskets limited ammo is gone they are still effective {they would have generally been some of the most formidable warriors of their tribe anyway to have aquired the muskets in the first place} and give their horsemen {which should not be found in Eskimo country !} a more realistic field of fire and the ability to fire on the move {same goes for horse archers and most mounted carbine and musket equipted units} .

[BeeSting]

Remember: CA never claimed their games to be "historical simulators" for the sake of entertainment value. In fact, it's for people with no historical knowledge and it has degraded itself to further insult your intelligence by tossing commonsense... for sake of fun? inuit lancers? half naked native indians marching in drilled fashion in snow? Yes, you have to be an ignoramus to not find certain things troubling.

Hey, CA, come on... Inuit lancers!??? An ARMY of Inuit lancers(!!) in the polar freeze of Northern Labrador!??? Well, I quite understand that the CA tried to depict the fact that the Inuit's were much better accustomed for the snowfields of Northern Canada, but lancers(!!)... What did they feed their horses with? Moss? Seal fat?

There are other options (to make fighting Inuits more challenging) available too:

1) give the inuits (some historically more truthful version of their armed forces) huge defense/stamina/morale bonuses IF their armies are fighting in their native lands.

2) give the outsiders (the europeans) huge defense, stamina, morale PENALTIES if they are fighting in such harsh conditions as the Arctic OR the forests of Huron, Iroqouis, etc.

3) combine #1 & #2....

But lancers(!??), CANONS(!??), savages drilled in ligning up and marching!? If modders can easily implement AOR principles and realistic ethnic flavor, why cannot CA do the same?

As to lancers: is there ANY historic evidence that native Americans used ANY horse lancers at any point in time?

Sigh...

[Slaists]

Remember: CA never claimed their games to be "historical simulators" for the sake of entertainment value. In fact, it's for people with no historical knowledge and it has degraded itself to further insult your intelligence by tossing commonsense... for sake of fun? inuit lancers? half naked native indians marching in drilled fashion in snow? Yes, you have to be an ignoramus to not find certain things troubling.

Well, if that's the direction: I wan to see self-igniting walrus riders, excellent weapons against 1st rates stuck amongst icebergs ;)

[Sheogorath]

Well, if that's the direction: I wan to see self-igniting walrus riders, excellent weapons against 1st rates stuck amongst icebergs ;)

I still haven't been able to unlock the super-secret Quantum Elephants I predicted would be in the game a while ago.
It makes me a sad geisha.

[DisruptorX]

Walrus riders would honestly be more appealing. The inherent absurdity and the fact that no one would mistake them with reality.

Also, I thought that smiley was a sad guy with a beret. >.>

[Sheogorath]

Walrus riders would honestly be more appealing. The inherent absurdity and the fact that no one would mistake them with reality.

Also, I thought that smiley was a sad guy with a beret. >.>

I don't think anybody could mistake an elephant in a box for reality either. Especially not one that collapses into a black hole when the box is open ;)

[IvarrWolfsong]

Honestly, they just need to make native american infantry "stuck" in light infantry mode, reduce their reload and increase the melee ability. IRL their strength would come from moving fast and stealthfully (with out a ponderous supply train) through a land that they had better knowledge of. I don't know how they could simulate that but native Cherokee crusader knights and the 103rd Iroquois Mountain Howitzer division is not it.

Inuits are completely different than the other tribes. I am not aware of any great inuit military culture or raiding hordes. I think their special ability should be called "can_survive_in_arctic_or_tundra_unlike_european_armies"

[Melvish]

Inuit have horses because CA mixed(confused) them with Innu witch used horses.

As a side note by 1759 most major Amerindian Nation had dropped the use of spear and bow for muskets.

[BeeSting]

Inuit have horses because CA mixed them with Innu witch used horses.

Lancers? please....

[Sheogorath]

Lancers? please....

Kind of depends on your definition of 'lancer'. I'd imagine that most anybody with access to horses thought of mounted spearmen.

[Melvish]

Lancers? please....

Granted, it is a bit exagerated that they are able to field regiment of lancers as only the most prominent tribe members could "afford" horses. They were quite rare in that region.

Innu were also called Cree and their close related cousin the Plain-Cree made extensive use of horses.
But it far stretching as to call their horses hordes: lancers...

[Megas Methuselah]

Innu were also called Cree and their close related cousin the Plain-Cree made extensive use of horses.
But it far stretching as to call their horses hordes: lancers...

Yeah, the nomadic Pains Cree lived in the Great Plains (yea, I live in the same land as my ancestors), and like most of the other plains nations, were born into the saddle. Try to think of the Asian steppe nomads.

However, I cannot speak for the use of horses amongst the rest of the tribes.

It's also too bad CA didn't bother with doing research about the placement of the native tribes. Instead, they decided to put well-heard-of tribes in whatever area they so chose. It didn't matter that the Chippewa Nations are currently spread all across Canada because of their earlier power and glory in this period, or that the Hurons were practically non-existant by this time, having been all but wiped out by the Five Nations the previous century, or that the Inuit homeland wasn't in Labrador and was far too insignificant anyways to be included as a faction, and that it doesn't make sense to include the wrongfully-done Inuit and leave the more populous areas of America to the south as "Wilderness," and so on. They might just as well have put the old Roman Republic in Sweden at the same time as Napoleon's Empire in Greece in the year 1700.

Not that any of you kids care, of course. This only catches your attention when you get frustrated over a few horsemen wiping your army all over the floor because you don't have any sense of generalship.

[Nelson]

Yeah, the nomadic Pains Cree lived in the Great Plains (yea, I live in the same land as my ancestors), and like most of the other plains nations, were born into the saddle.

Did they really use saddles?