siege is broken: bug or feature?

[Slaists]

I have observed the following scenario:

1. the besieged side sallies in the last turn before the town is supposed to surrender
2. i (the besieger) defeat the townsfolk capturing every single one of them
3. after the battle i get the message "siege is broken" and there is a new bunch of armed townsfolk in the town
4. i have to restart the siege counter from scratch (or storm the city)

I am wondering if this is a bug: at least in the previous TW titles, if the defender sallied and LOST, the city went to the besieging army, no questions asked...

[lugh]

I've had it happen both ways actually. Sometimes they'll sally and when I win, I get the city. Sometimes they'll sally and I'll win, and the reduced forces return to the city and I face storming it along with a newly rejuvenated flintlock citizins group.

Sort of frustrating since it doesn't seem to be linked to how many of the enemy manage to escape my clutches. Sometimes a tiny number will manage to keep the city, sometimes a massive amount escapes and I still capture it.

[Dead Guy]

Happened to me too, and others I believe. Can't be working as intended.

[Slaists]

I've had it happen both ways actually. Sometimes they'll sally and when I win, I get the city. Sometimes they'll sally and I'll win, and the reduced forces return to the city and I face storming it along with a newly rejuvenated flintlock citizins group.

Sort of frustrating since it doesn't seem to be linked to how many of the enemy manage to escape my clutches. Sometimes a tiny number will manage to keep the city, sometimes a massive amount escapes and I still capture it.

yup. now that I think of it: I've had it both ways too. lately, I just autoresolve sieges (assaults actually) most of the time.

[MikeV]

I have observed the following scenario:

1. the besieged side sallies in the last turn before the town is supposed to surrender
2. i (the besieger) defeat the townsfolk capturing every single one of them
3. after the battle i get the message "siege is broken" and there is a new bunch of armed townsfolk in the town
4. i have to restart the siege counter from scratch (or storm the city)

I am wondering if this is a bug: at least in the previous TW titles, if the defender sallied and LOST, the city went to the besieging army, no questions asked...

I tend to think it's an unintended consequence of the new feature, where "flintlock armed citizens" rally to defend the town (the grey bars on the settlement's flag staff). Even though you won the tactical battle when they sallied on their turn, at the start of your turn you get to face a new group of volunteers.

Think of it as being in the same category as helping an ally siege a settlement, even if you have a much superior force, and they get ownership of the settlement.

[Julius_Nepos]

The problem is, the current system effectively gives the AI a "win", regardless of the outcome of the battle. The system works as intended when the AI sallies out on the last turn and is defeated, the town effectively is forced to surrender and you claim the territory. However when the AI comes out early and attacks, it doesn't seem to matter how many you kill, if even a single flintlock militia unit escapes, the entire pool of city defenders is replenished and the siege is broken. As if to say, because Corporal Bort managed to elude your 20,000 man army and return to the city, he was able to close the gates extra-extra tight and raise another defense force in short order. On the one hand, I guess it makes sense, but its not internally consistent with how Total War is supposed to work, in all past incarnations of the series. Can't say whether or not it will ever be "fixed" since I'm not sure its actually a bug myself.

[Slaists]

The problem is, the current system effectively gives the AI a "win", regardless of the outcome of the battle. The system works as intended when the AI sallies out on the last turn and is defeated, the town effectively is forced to surrender and you claim the territory. However when the AI comes out early and attacks, it doesn't seem to matter how many you kill, if even a single flintlock militia unit escapes, the entire pool of city defenders is replenished and the siege is broken. As if to say, because Corporal Bort managed to elude your 20,000 man army and return to the city, he was able to close the gates extra-extra tight and raise another defense force in short order. On the one hand, I guess it makes sense, but its not internally consistent with how Total War is supposed to work, in all past incarnations of the series. Can't say whether or not it will ever be "fixed" since I'm not sure its actually a bug myself.

Not true: about that last turn sally. I have had several sieges in which the enemy sallied ON THE LAST TURN; I won the encounter and the siege was still broken...

[Slaists]

Now that I have had a chance to play a bit more, I start to like this new 'feature' for gameplay reasons. After the first sally from the city is defeated, the siege is broken and the city is refilled with armed citizens instead of a real army. If the player renews the siege, the battle odds are heavily skewed benefiting the player side.

This, in it's order allows one to impose demanding diplomatic conditions (such as "become a protectorate!" or a ceasefire) onto the AI instead of taking the province (and taking territorial expansion diplomatic hits).* Under the previous (MTW2, RTW) siege mechanics, if the defending side sallied and lost, the city would be taken by the besieger and the province ownership would transfer automatically.

So, I suspect, "siege is broken" is actually an intended feature.


--
* Not that the diplomacy hits matter that much given the current strategy map AI late game aggressiveness or rather lack of it.

[TB666]

I noticed this as well.
Also thought it was bugged until I noticed that it didn't say that they were sallying out like I thought they were.
They were actually intercepting my army thus giving themselfs chance.

[Oaty]

I've noticed if you hit end battle you get the city but if you hit continue to round them up you can't let 1 escape thus a bug

[Slaists]

I noticed this as well.
Also thought it was bugged until I noticed that it didn't say that they were sallying out like I thought they were.
They were actually intercepting my army thus giving themselfs chance.

Hmm. not sure how they could be 'intercepting' if I am besieging their city. Also, in the current state of the game, the intercepting side gets to DEFEND, but the city folk are definitely attacking when sallying (even if it's not called a sally by the game).

I've noticed if you hit end battle you get the city but if you hit continue to round them up you can't let 1 escape thus a bug

Will try that out today, never imagined the outcome would be different.

[TB666]

Hmm. not sure how they could be 'intercepting' if I am besieging their city. Also, in the current state of the game, the intercepting side gets to DEFEND, but the city folk are definitely attacking when sallying (even if it's not called a sally by the game).

No idea, that's just what I noticed.
And yes that also includes the city militia joining the "intercept"