Pirates seize U.S. freighter, hold captain for ransom

[KarlXII]

And no Karl, it didnt just become a problem. It just became a problem for us. And its going to get really bad, really quickly, because of the way we've chosen to handle it.

No, it's always been a problem, for everyone. Unless you're fine with other ships being hijacked because they aren't American. I think that's shameful to just now consider piracy as a threat to the United States, and only the United States, without any regard to the numerous other nationalities who have suffered from it.

[Don Corleone]

No, it's always been a problem, for everyone. Unless you're fine with other ships being hijacked because they aren't American. I think that's shameful to just now consider piracy as a threat to the United States, and only the United States, without any regard to the numerous other nationalities who have suffered from it.

I think you misunderstood me. When a Japanese ship get siezed, it is the responsiblity and right of the nation of Japan to determine how to proceed. If they ask for our help, then we might intervene, but it's not our place to jump into their affairs uninvited.

[KarlXII]

I think you misunderstood me. When a Japanese ship get siezed, it is the responsiblity and right of the nation of Japan to determine how to proceed. If they ask for our help, then we might intervene, but it's not our place to jump into their affairs uninvited.

This isn't about a nation's affairs. This is about international piracy.

but it's not our place to jump into their affairs uninvited

Hasn't stopped us before.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Hasn't stopped us before.

That doesn't mean we should continue that policy.

[Strike For The South]

That doesn't mean we should continue that policy.

So are you pro or anti beheading?

[a completely inoffensive name]

So are you pro or anti beheading?

My stance on this is that since it is now our problem we should look on stopping pirates from appearing in the first place, not just killing them whenever they pop up. The fact that there is pirates plaguing the sea does not mean we should do something, we should not be the world's police.

[Strike For The South]

My stance on this is that since it is now our problem we should look on stopping pirates from appearing in the first place, not just killing them whenever they pop up. The fact that there is pirates plaguing the sea does not mean we should do something, we should not be the world's police.

So...pro?

[KarlXII]

My stance on this is that since it is now our problem we should look on stopping pirates from appearing in the first place, not just killing them whenever they pop up. The fact that there is pirates plaguing the sea does not mean we should do something, we should not be the world's police.

It has always been our problem. Remember Article V of the North Atlantic Treaty, of which the United States signed, that states an attack on one member is an attack on all members. It hasn't been an exclusively US problem, but it has been a US problem.

European tankers attacked

Norwegians attacked.

Unless you'd like to explain why the United States should not adhere to it's own signed treaties, then my point stands.

[InsaneApache]

I think you misunderstood me. When a Japanese ship get siezed, it is the responsiblity and right of the nation of Japan to determine how to proceed. If they ask for our help, then we might intervene, but it's not our place to jump into their affairs uninvited.

It's the responsibility of all nations. Piracy is what is known as a universal crime. What's buggering it all up is what to do with them once you've captured them. Believe it or not, most times they are set free.

[ajaxfetish]

What's buggering it all up is what to do with them once you've captured them. Believe it or not, most times they are set free.

How about if they're set free a few miles out to sea?

Ajax

[Tribesman]

I have absolutely no way to respond to viewpoints like this.

Is that because it makes sense ?

So with have two current examples , one followed the guidelines set out and one didn't , one ship is sailing on its way with crew and cargo safe and intact , one is missing its captain .
So who got it right ?
The Isreali crew who rigged water hoses , lights and barbed wire so they drove off the pirates or the American crew who fought back without ensuring that all crew were safe .

Obama's answer to the crew... use fire hoses. Yeah, that seems like a fair fight.

Leaving aside that those guidlines predate Obama by years.....
It worked for the Isrealis didn't it .

As for countries that would deny port entry to ships that actually capitalize on their right to defend themselves.... perhaps we're better off not trading with such self-loathing people with no instinct to survive.

Its the international law of the sea and right of innocent passage Don , you know the same international law that makes Piracy illegal .


So I hope now that The American sailors efforts backfired that the US forces in the area to fight piracy under international law follow the French Navies example of how to do things and don't screw up badly like the Indian Navy did .

[Pannonian]

For some reason, the Pompey solution springs to mind. Scour the coasts and their hinterlands, then settle the pirates inland and provide them with a living that doesn't involve piracy. Reshape for modern realities and sensibilities.

[InsaneApache]

O/T.

I see the early release scheme has kicked in Tribes.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Is that because it makes sense ?

So with have two current examples , one followed the guidelines set out and one didn't , one ship is sailing on its way with crew and cargo safe and intact , one is missing its captain .
So who got it right ?
The Isreali crew who rigged water hoses , lights and barbed wire so they drove off the pirates or the American crew who fought back without ensuring that all crew were safe .

My God, Tribesman is using a group of Israelis as a positive example in his posts, I thought I'd never see the day.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Husar:

My point was that sympathy for their condition should be irrelevant to the decision to stop piracy.

In our own countries, YOUR comparative poverty is not an acceptable excuse for you walking into some posh bloke's garage and driving off with his car. It may very well explain your motivation, it may spark some interest in reducing poverty in general, but it does not and cannot excuse the crime itself.

Piracy must be treated as a crime against all and must be pursued vigorously by all. Using electronic surveillance and other means, we need to identify pirate physical and personnel assets and remove them (not carpet bomb an 80% uninvolved fishing village for the actions of 3 families who live there) via destruction, confiscation or incarceration.

[Crazed Rabbit]

I'm not defending the kidnappers, I'm saying you should not carpet bomb villages because some people were kidnapped. It's not like the pirates are bloodthirsty monsters who eat bugs and then the kidnapped people after receiving the money. They're a bunch of guys who have no jobs but little boats so they think they can make some money off these rich westerners who come buy with expensive ships that they afforded by selling ressources they got out of the pirates' country. Yes, they do fumble around with sticks and shoot rockets but that just shows how insecure they are because they are afraid someone on the ship might use a water hose on them otherwise. They play big gorilla to scare their prey because otherwise they don't have a chance, that a bunch of sailor can overwhelm them or scare them away now and then just reinforces that.

Do you really believe that?!

I work at a shop. There's no way I'll ever fight back if I get robbed. Honestly, they don't even need a weapon to rob me, all they need to say is that they want to register, and I'll hand it over in a second. It's not my money, so I see absolutely no reason to care. My life and my safety is worth more than a few bucks.

That money pays your wage.

The ports banning arms is frustrating, but not surprising, considering the governments around the world.

Even more frustrating is France being so much more proactive than the US. We've got a warship right next to the pirate ship - why not simply 'negotiate' the release of the hostage in exchange for allowing the pirates to live? Which is basically what happens at bank robberies.

This problem is just going to get worse. I'm decidedly in favor of gunboat diplomacy.

CR

[HoreTore]

and if i were a ship owner with a way to defend myself i would happily pull the trigger when your 'fishing' boat hove into view.

If you were a ship owner, you would been a thousand miles away from the ship and wouldn't do anything about it.

That money pays your wage.

If a boss expects his employees to risk their lives/safety to defend a couple of bucks, I would've quit instantly. Fortunately, I have a sane boss who expects me to hand over the cash as fast as possible, and leave the rest of the stuff to the proper authorities, ie. the police. He's insured anyway, and a couple of thousand NOK is nothing when the yearly turnover is 700 million....

[Lemur]

Even more frustrating is France being so much more proactive than the US. We've got a warship right next to the pirate ship - why not simply 'negotiate' the release of the hostage in exchange for allowing the pirates to live?

The Founding Fathers faced exactly the same question, although on a much larger scale. Their solution? Pay the ransom. Oh, there was a lot more to it than that, but the upshot was hostages, failed rescue attempts (resulting in more hostages), bribes, treaty, payments.

We gonna party like it's 1805!

[Crazed Rabbit]

Is that because it makes sense ?

So with have two current examples , one followed the guidelines set out and one didn't , one ship is sailing on its way with crew and cargo safe and intact , one is missing its captain .
So who got it right ?
The Isreali crew who rigged water hoses , lights and barbed wire so they drove off the pirates or the American crew who fought back without ensuring that all crew were safe .

Um, the way the American crew tells it, the Captain gave himself up so that the rest could be safe - rather different from what your version implies, isn't it? But then, letting the truth get in the way of a dig at the US is never fun, is it?
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1

Crew members said their ordeal had begun with the Somali pirates hauling themselves up from a small boat bobbing on the surface of the Indian Ocean far below.

As the pirates shot in the air, Phillips told his crew to lock themselves in a cabin and surrendered himself to safeguard his men, crew members said.

Phillips was then held hostage in an enclosed lifeboat that was closely watched by U.S. warships and a helicopter in an increasingly tense standoff. On Friday, the French navy freed a sailboat seized off Somalia last week by other pirates, but one of the five hostages was killed.

Anyways, glad to hear this had a happy ending. Hurrah for the SEALs! Hopefully the pirates willthink twice before going after another American flagged vessel.

CR

[KarlXII]

Anyways, glad to hear this had a happy ending. Hurrah for the SEALs! Hopefully the pirates willthink twice before going after another American flagged vessel.

CR

Hopefully we'll make them think twice about going after any vessel.