Obama disappoints me...

[Vuk]

You see, I am smart. I got my expectations of Barack Obama so low, that if he does not plunge us into WWIII I will be pleasantly suprised. I think it would be impossible for him to disappoint me now. The only thing that does cause me disappointment is the stupidity and spinelessness of modern Americans. (The same can be said about the rest of the world, but my expectations were so much higher for Americans because of all they have been blessed with) I know people who have voted for Obama because for reasonable considerations that I simply did not agree with, but so many people who I know supported him and voted for him when they knew absolutely nothing about him at all. I hate to say it, but it is mostly women who have dissapointed me with it too. When I ask them why they voted for Obama, it is not because they think he will make a better president, it is:
a) because my friends did
b) because it is kewl
c) I do not know much about politics, but it is my duty to vote, and he looks like a nice guy

Then in the most blatent show of racism I have ever personally witness in my lifetime: "He is black , a black man getting into office will be final step in ending racism" Sadly, that is the one I have heard the most. You know when racism ends? When a black guy and a white guy run against each other, and the general public is concerned about their policies, personalities, and experience, and race is NOT an issue. Those people who voted for Obama because he is black did the exact opposite, they showed that this country is not past race (and never will be as long as there are people like them), and that it is a key factor in politics.
If you cannot honestly tell the world that if McCain and Obama were the same people in all other respects, but their races were reversed, that you would have voted the exact same, then you go against everything this country stands for and you do not deserve the right to vote, because you blatantly dishonour those who fought for civil liberties, those who fought for equality in the revolution, and your very country. If you voted because of race, then you are a racist. Plain and simple.
I got nothing against people who vote for what they think is better for their country (whether they vote D or R), but when people base their choice on race, that really does disgust me. Certainly not a majority of the people I know made their decision based on race, but enough to disappoint me in Americans and people in general...way too many for the 21st century in an age where we are supposed to judge people as individuals, not by their skin colour... Almost as disappointing is some of the other brainless reasons I have heard people give, which have to do with popularity rather than ability. Obama cannot disappoint me, but Americans certainly do...

[Seamus Fermanagh]

...Then in the most blatent show of racism I have ever personally witness in my lifetime: "He is black , a black man getting into office will be final step in ending racism" Sadly, that is the one I have heard the most. You know when racism ends? When a black guy and a white guy run against each other, and the general public is concerned about their policies, personalities, and experience, and race is NOT an issue. Those people who voted for Obama because he is black did the exact opposite, they showed that this country is not past race (and never will be as long as there are people like them), and that it is a key factor in politics....

You are correct that some of those voting for Obama soley because of his race -- and I'd agree that the number who'll admit that motivation is likely to be smaller than the number so motivated -- are themselves practicing a brand of racism. Unfortunately, getting to the non-racist end-state you describe probably DOES involve some of this "reverse" racism. Eventually the penduluum begins to gyrate less and less wildly and we will arrive at a new, non-racist balance point. I suspect it is all an inevitable part of the process.


As to disappointment, I have to agree I am disappointed. However, given the penduluum of US politics, an Obama was almost inevitable. We'd been under GOP leadership with a "tough" foreign policy for some time. The electorate likes to mix it up a bit and, mostly, wanted someone who'd take a softer approach. They'll learn that softer isn't necessarily better and creates its own raft of problems -- just as did the harder stance effected by the Bush White House.

[Vladimir]

Exactly. We went from Nixon to Carter.

[rvg]

Man, I so hate these wild swings.

[seireikhaan]

Exactly. We went from Nixon to Carter.

First of all, let's give it a little more time to declare Obama another Carter. Second of all, Nixon was quite a bit more competent, in my view, than Bush 43. Less ethical and more power-hungry, but definitely more competent.

[Vladimir]

First of all, let's give it a little more time to declare Obama another Carter. Second of all, Nixon was quite a bit more competent, in my view, than Bush 43. Less ethical and more power-hungry, but definitely more competent.

You're also viewing Nixon in the light of history. What will you think of Bush '43 in 30 years?

The parallels between Obama and Carter are striking, right down to their energy policy.

[seireikhaan]

You're also viewing Nixon in the light of history. What will you think of Bush '43 in 30 years?

The parallels between Obama and Carter are striking, right down to their energy policy.

So, you're asking me what I'll think of Bush 43 in 30 years, but won't ask yourself what you'll think of Obama by the end if his term, let alone 30 years?

[Askthepizzaguy]

So, you're asking me what I'll think of Bush 43 in 30 years, but won't ask yourself what you'll think of Obama by the end if his term, let alone 30 years?

Oh SNAP!

[Vuk]

You are correct that some of those voting for Obama soley because of his race -- and I'd agree that the number who'll admit that motivation is likely to be smaller than the number so motivated -- are themselves practicing a brand of racism. Unfortunately, getting to the non-racist end-state you describe probably DOES involve some of this "reverse" racism. Eventually the penduluum begins to gyrate less and less wildly and we will arrive at a new, non-racist balance point. I suspect it is all an inevitable part of the process.


As to disappointment, I have to agree I am disappointed. However, given the penduluum of US politics, an Obama was almost inevitable. We'd been under GOP leadership with a "tough" foreign policy for some time. The electorate likes to mix it up a bit and, mostly, wanted someone who'd take a softer approach. They'll learn that softer isn't necessarily better and creates its own raft of problems -- just as did the harder stance effected by the Bush White House.

Racism today I think is even more inexcusable than it was in the 20's. Back then people were raised in an atmosphere and society that taught them that the other race was inhuman and inferior, so it is easier to understand why they themselves held those views (which isn't to say that it is anymore right). Today, in a society that is supposed to espouse equality and teach people to look at people for who they are and not their skin colour, it is a lot less excusable, and requires a much larger ethical jump than it did back then I think. That is why it disappoints me so much, because I expected this election to be based on the people and politics, not the race. Of course I knew that there would be a few people on either of the fringes, but for the most part I expected people not to consider race as a factor. I certainly never thought that any of my own aquaintances would make their selection because of race. It is not "reverse" racism, it is racism. It is the same vehicle, just with a different driver.
I have been so naive I think, because I always expected racism to come from the other way, because that is what I was taught. It shocked me to see it so alive in today's society, and coming from a direction I did not expect. As a person of mixed race, I feel as much hate toward McCain because of his race as Obama, and as much love of Obama because of his race as McCain. I recognise the good intent a lot of people may have had, but that does not make it anymore right. People need to think. If you are afraid that some people in society are gonna be racist, you counter it by not being racist yourself, and encouraging those you know not to be racist. Not by being racist yourself and encouraging those you know to be racist! It does not fix anything, it just takes us further from the mark.

As for policy, I think you are right about people wanting change. Unfortunately, I think people should have paid attention to the old addage "Out of the frying pan into the fire". Sure, Bush was bad and we want something different, but we should choose that something on its merit, not just because it is "different". I think we did just that though, got our feet burnt, and jumped out first chance right into the fire.

[Strike For The South]

Racism today I think is even more inexcusable than it was in the 20's. Back then people were raised in an atmosphere and society that taught them that the other race was inhuman and inferior, so it is easier to understand why they themselves held those views (which isn't to say that it is anymore right). Today, in a society that is supposed to espouse equality and teach people to look at people for who they are and not their skin colour, it is a lot less excusable, and requires a much larger ethical jump than it did back then I think. That is why it disappoints me so much, because I expected this election to be based on the people and politics, not the race. Of course I knew that there would be a few people on either of the fringes, but for the most part I expected people not to consider race as a factor. I certainly never thought that any of my own aquaintances would make their selection because of race. It is not "reverse" racism, it is racism. It is the same vehicle, just with a different driver.
I have been so naive I think, because I always expected racism to come from the other way, because that is what I was taught. It shocked me to see it so alive in today's society, and coming from a direction I did not expect. As a person of mixed race, I feel as much hate toward McCain because of his race as Obama, and as much love of Obama because of his race as McCain. I recognise the good intent a lot of people may have had, but that does not make it anymore right. People need to think. If you are afraid that some people in society are gonna be racist, you counter it by not being racist yourself, and encouraging those you know not to be racist. Not by being racist yourself and encouraging those you know to be racist! It does not fix anything, it just takes us further from the mark.

As for policy, I think you are right about people wanting change. Unfortunately, I think people should have paid attention to the old addage "Out of the frying pan into the fire". Sure, Bush was bad and we want something different, but we should choose that something on its merit, not just because it is "different". I think we did just that though, got our feet burnt, and jumped out first chance right into the fire.

Race is a false construct. ESP in America. The fact that you feel hate or love toward a race only shows individual shortcomings.

[Vuk]

Race is a false construct. ESP in America. The fact that you feel hate or love toward a race only shows individual shortcomings.

I think you missed my entire point Strike. My point was that I do not, and could not without hating myself.

[rory_20_uk]

The G20 was a public relations exercise. There was no chance for anytihng to be achieved, merely for the world leaders to get together and see what their minions had been spending the last month or so working over.

If anyone thought that the whole world was suddenly going to change they were morons. The players at this level are not easily swayed hicks. They play the long game. Many don't bother with elections, so 8 years isn't that long either way.

Obama is opening talks with Cuba. The embargo is pointless and has no place. This is a good thing.
Obama has thawed things with Iran slightly. Carrot and stick are far better than just carrot. Talk is cheap, so why not?
Obama is trying to pull out of Iraq. About time!

And what's the problem of gravitas?

The Italians have a leader with hair staples and a perm-tan who manages to hold the world record for gaffes
The British have a dour, obstinate blind dictator who likes to try ot take the world view - especially when assigning blame to events that appeared to the casual observer to have occurred when he was Chancellor
The French a midget who has a mandate for change unless it affects jobs or the 15 hour week
The Germans rather fittingly have a leader of indeterminate gender who nevertheless could headbutt it's way through a wall.
China has a Leader Mk III4b clone who makes the head of the bank of England appear interesting.
Russia has a puppet
South Africa has a criminal.

Obama, you look quite good all things considered!

[Tsavong]

The British have a dour, obstinate blind dictator who likes to try ot take the world view - especially when assigning blame to events that appeared to the casual observer to have occurred when he was Chancellor

He is not a dictator he was elected into parliament last election. Who ever leads the political party which is in power is not up to the public but members of that party just because no one in labour stood to challenge his election to leader of the labour party dose not make him a dictator.

[Louis VI the Fat]

The Italians have a leader with hair staples and a perm-tan who manages to hold the world record for gaffes
The British have a dour, obstinate blind dictator who likes to try ot take the world view - especially when assigning blame to events that appeared to the casual observer to have occurred when he was Chancellor
The French a midget who has a mandate for change unless it affects jobs or the 15 hour week
The Germans rather fittingly have a leader of indeterminate gender who nevertheless could headbutt it's way through a wall.
China has a Leader Mk III4b clone who makes the head of the bank of England appear interesting.
Russia has a puppet
South Africa has a criminal.

Genius!

Not Zerg, I hasten to add.

[Adrian II]

Is this where I spout baseless accusations about Obama's personality, his family, his race or words he never said, only to be corrected by Louis or Lemur who maintain that there are different sides to an issue and that the truth might actually be worth pursuing?

Good.

I liked his Notre Dame speech on abortion. After the verbal diarrhea we were accustomed to in the past eight years or more, I was relieved to see a President looking for middle ground in this politicised debate and proposing that each side attempt to understand and meet the concerns of the other. It's only words so far, I know, but it beats grunting and throwing faeces.

[Ser Clegane]

*throws faeces at Adrian for being too middle ground*

(I think we need a new smiley for that ... but then - maybe not)

[LittleGrizzly]

If Obama can change Abortion in America to much more like what we have over here in Europe then that will quite simply be amazing.

For to long Abortion has been an issue that forces decent percentages of the electorate to stick solidly to one party, this means people will vote for the most useless of politicians simply because they check one box they feel passionately about...

This would then lead them to look at other far more important issues, like civil liberties, the economy ect.

[Xiahou]

I liked his Notre Dame speech on abortion. After the verbal diarrhea we were accustomed to in the past eight years or more, I was relieved to see a President looking for middle ground in this politicised debate and proposing that each side attempt to understand and meet the concerns of the other. It's only words so far, I know, but it beats grunting and throwing faeces.

Talk is cheap. Where's the action? Obama has been a reliable supporter of unfettered abortion on demand. Where's his middle ground? What is he giving up in compromise from his side? Nothing, from what I've seen. The speech was completely disingenuous.