Obama disappoints me...

[Louis VI the Fat]

The Italians have a leader with hair staples and a perm-tan who manages to hold the world record for gaffes
The British have a dour, obstinate blind dictator who likes to try ot take the world view - especially when assigning blame to events that appeared to the casual observer to have occurred when he was Chancellor
The French a midget who has a mandate for change unless it affects jobs or the 15 hour week
The Germans rather fittingly have a leader of indeterminate gender who nevertheless could headbutt it's way through a wall.
China has a Leader Mk III4b clone who makes the head of the bank of England appear interesting.
Russia has a puppet
South Africa has a criminal.

Genius!

Not Zerg, I hasten to add.

[Lemur]

A useful thought from The American Conservative:

If the GOP is to have any chance of reviving anytime soon, it will be by peeling off disillusioned and dissatisfied Obama supporters. Even if Obama were driving people away (so far, there is little evidence for this), the GOP still has to be able to attract them. At present, the GOP’s powers of repulsion remain far greater. So far, everything the GOP has been doing in Congress and in the media has reinforced all the habits that have pushed so many people into Obama’s arms. Shouting fascism and tyranny in ever-louder voices is not going to change this pattern, but will probably ensure that it keeps getting worse for Republicans.

[Banquo's Ghost]

A useful thought from The American Conservative:

If the GOP is to have any chance of reviving anytime soon, it will be by peeling off disillusioned and dissatisfied Obama supporters. Even if Obama were driving people away (so far, there is little evidence for this), the GOP still has to be able to attract them. At present, the GOP’s powers of repulsion remain far greater. So far, everything the GOP has been doing in Congress and in the media has reinforced all the habits that have pushed so many people into Obama’s arms. Shouting fascism and tyranny in ever-louder voices is not going to change this pattern, but will probably ensure that it keeps getting worse for Republicans.

I don't know if there are similar examples from US political history, but I'm surprised the GOP has not taken on board what happened to the British Conservative party after Tony Blair's win in 1997.

They had developed a belief in the Divine Right of Tory Government and were rather taken aback when the ungrateful peons elected a whippersnapper with no government experience in a landslide. The reaction was to despair of the idiot electorate and embark on a suicidal spiral of pandering to the extremes of the party and electing ever more wingnut leaders to ensure the core vote. It turned out that the core vote was comprised of thirteen ladies of uncertain age in Tunbridge Wells, a couple of retired colonels whose cells had been padded with yellowing copies of the Daily Mail and a dachshund named Colin. Unsurprisingly, they kept being walloped at the polls, even when standing against increasingly vacuous Bliar. Each time they got walloped, they gorged more on crazy flakes. (To steal my currently favourite meme ).

Only when David Cameron got elected to the leadership (rather accidentally, since Colin was chasing rabbits at the time and there was a jumble sale on at the Women's Institute) did the party finally start to realise that out-Blairing Blair was the way to go. Wingnuts safely retired to the hinterlands, and with the electoral gift that is Gordon Brown (and the seemingly inevitable poisonous corruption that afflicts all parties after two terms) Cameron's party is all but indistinguishable from New Labour on policy, but more importantly, says almost nothing meaningful on anything. They watch from the sidelines as the government destroys itself, safely anodyne. Cameron understands that governments lose elections, oppositions do not win them.

Fascinatingly, this is almost exactly the same evolution that the Labour Party went through when Mrs Thatcher crushed them in 1979. Being socialists, their wingnuttery knew no bounds - they got so few votes in one election that it was clear Michael Foot didn't even vote for himself. It's been said that Thatcher's greatest legacy was to disband the Labour Party forever. Tony Blair's great victory was to invent the successor party to Thatcherism, whilst the party that spawned her consumed itself.

Lessons from history. It amazes me to see experienced politicians doing the same thing all over again. Mature democracies are all about the middle ground - get a reputation for extremist lunacy and you can spend a long time in the wilderness shouting at tumbleweed.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Are you suggesting that insulting, dismissive rhetoric out of North Korea and Iran is a new development? Explain, please.

No, I'm simply saying that's not going to get him gravitas, and asked how exactly he'd get it.

CR

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Banquo:

But the GOP HAS been trying that, progressively more and more, since the advent of Bush 41. In strict electoral terms it works well, but does NOTHING to promote a vision of the future that has anything different in substance.

Bush 41 was conservative, but very much beleived in "going along" in the interest of governance and let a number of the federal devolution efforts begun by Reagan go fallow. He did little to reverse the Reagan revolution, but he very much stalled it. Facing solid Dem opposition, he accepted a massive tax increase to curtail the deficit, got a modest recession thereby, and had the recession used to beat him over the head and shove him from office.

Dole took the standard in 1996 and proved that he was a good Senate leader but a lousy national candidate. Clinton had done too well for too many and, having given the GOP the House after 40 years, the electorate decided to keep power split a bit.

Bush 43 (no, I don't like the dynasty stuff here either, their were 3 full presidencies between Adams and Adams), following 9-11-01, took a tough guy stance in foreign affairs that appealed to neo-cons and an angry electorate...but aside from one round of tax cuts early on managed to outspend the Clinton's on a host of social projects and grew government as thoroughly as any adminstration since Johnson. Set aside the WoT and you have someone out-Clintoning Clinton (though much less glibly and with fewer pecadillos). He began his 2nd term with an effort to make real change toward the conservative agenda and got his head handed to him.

McCain's philosophy of governance and track record show him to be a good late 1950s early 1960s democrat. Inclined, shallowly, toward fiscal responsibility. Solid on defense and security. Somewhat liberal on many issues on the social side of the spectrum. Had no problems with federal government being THE force for governance in the USA. Given a choice between this Dem-lite and a Dem who was glib, new and promised change, the electorate told John "no."


In short, there has been no national champion for conservatism who could appeal to the mainstream by educating them as to how conservatism works for THEM. We're left with the fruit-bats who'd prefer theocracy-lite or the "lets go back to modified isolationism" crowd.

We are not suffering simply because we're left with purists who won't compromise, we're suffering because we don't have anyone who can bring people into the fold with reason, appropriate passion and a clear link between the ideas that are conservatism and the intellectual and economic values that do connect with most of America.

[Lemur]

Okay, finally I have an issue that truly disappoints me. This is the kind of this Chicagons will kill you for.

Obama orders pizza from St. Louis

The news is hitting Chicago deep dish pizza makers' eye like a big pizza pie. President Barack Obama is having 140 people over to the White House Friday night for a some deep-dish pizza — St. Louis deep dish pizza. It seems during his campaign he had pizza from a restaurant called Pi in St. Louis. That's the story Pi assistant manager Lindsey Tornetto tells. Whatever happened, the restaurant says the owner and his partner packed dough, cheese and pizza pans in their suitcases and flew to Washington.

C'mon, the Prez is from Chicago, a lot of his staff is from Chicago, and he orders pizza from St. Louis? WHAT? This is heresy. This is madness. This is not Sparta.

[Vuk]

Okay, finally I have an issue that truly disappoints me. This is the kind of this Chicagons will kill you for.

Obama orders pizza from St. Louis

The news is hitting Chicago deep dish pizza makers' eye like a big pizza pie. President Barack Obama is having 140 people over to the White House Friday night for a some deep-dish pizza — St. Louis deep dish pizza. It seems during his campaign he had pizza from a restaurant called Pi in St. Louis. That's the story Pi assistant manager Lindsey Tornetto tells. Whatever happened, the restaurant says the owner and his partner packed dough, cheese and pizza pans in their suitcases and flew to Washington.

C'mon, the Prez is from Chicago, a lot of his staff is from Chicago, and he orders pizza from St. Louis? WHAT? This is heresy. This is madness. This is not Sparta.

I suppose that when you are the messiah anything that you do makes the news...

Headline: Obama did a #2! It was big!

[Lemur]

I suppose that when you are the messiah anything that you do makes the news...

Vuk, dude, you need to calm down. Obama is just a politician. It's not healthy for you to think of him as a Messiah. It's kind of worrying that you see him as a religious figure. I wouldn't equate him to a priest, much less a bishop, much less the Savior come again.

You need to really look at your own thought process and see where this idea came from. Therapy may be in order.

[Vuk]

Since when does the ingredients in a politician's phillywhich make headlines? Since when does the pizza a politician order make headlines?

Obama is just a politician.

Sadly I am one of the few people who realise that...

[Lemur]

Sadly I am one of the few people who realise that...

Wow, it must be lonely being one of The Select Few. Does it make you believe that you are a special genius, or that the rest of your countrymen are corrupted fools? Or both?

[Vuk]

Wow, it must be lonely being one of The Select Few. Does it make you believe that you are a special genius, or that the rest of your countrymen are corrupted fools? Or both?

I enjoy your sarcasm Lemur, it speaks loads. Maybe it just makes me think that people should get down to earth and realize that the Chicago Saint IS indeed only a politician, and stop following the suit of the the media and their professors in proclaiming him a messiah. (yes, I have heard him quasi-seriously being called that by several real life acquaintances, and by a certain media person we both know who gets a hardon every time he sees him)
I have been excited when people who I thought were good people have been put into office or ran for office, but I have never deluded myself about them enough to not realize that they are human, and to not be very critical of them. I think a lot of people just need to get a life (and some like Chris Matthews just need an enema).

[Lemur]

Based on that response, I'm guessing you went with (b) the rest of your countrymen are corrupted fools. You could have just said so.

[Vuk]

Based on that response, I'm guessing you went with (b) the rest of your countrymen are corrupted fools. You could have just said so.

corrupted? No. Rest? As in everyone but me? No. Fools? We all are in our own way.

So you tell me, how does it feel to be one of the modern, enlightened, educated ones who looks down on primitives like me?

EDIT: Rather than getting into a back and forth Lemur, let's be a little more productive about this.
Do you deny that the world is having a love affair with obama? Do you think it is good to throw reason out like that?

[Lemur]

No, no, I'm one of the Select Few, at least according to your reckoning, since I have been blessed with the rare and special insight that President 44 is just a politician. This sets me apart from the "sheeple".

-edit-

Excuse me, I didn't really answer your question. "How does it feel"? Well, I just finished a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, so I can safely say that it feels both nutty and fruity. It's kinda filling, too, but not too filling. I'm going to wash it down with some tea. That will change the feeling.

[Vuk]

No, no, I'm one of the Select Few, at least according to your reckoning, since I have been blessed with the rare and special insight that President 44 is just a politician.

He is just a politician, but he is one that can do no wrong, and if you disagree with him at all, you are a wacky rightwing extremist who is stuck in the darkages and full of hate, right?

[Lemur]

As I said in a different thread, you're just freaking out because you're stuck on campus. We've had this conversation, Vuk.

Here's a legitimate, non-sarcastic question for ya: Is there a moral difference between people for whom President 44 can do no wrong, no matter what he does, and people (like some on this board) for whom President 44 can do no right, no matter what he does?

-edit-

Sorry, I missed your edit above. My bad.

Do you deny that the world is having a love affair with obama? Do you think it is good to throw reason out like that?

Sure, our Prez is a bit of a media star right now, and moreso than the usual God-King treatment that all of our Presidents get. And as with all things, some people are taking it too far. However, this has as much to do with his predecessor as it does with the man himself. If President 43 had not provoked so much fear and loathing, President 44 would not get this treatment. He probably would never have been elected.

The people who believe that Obama is some sort of mixture between Neo from The Matrix and JC from Jesus Christ Superstar will come down to earth. I'm not particularly worried about them. The non-stop conspiracy theories and crazy flakes being dished out by Fox News and the rightwing mediasphere, however, are more troubling. When you're encouraging people to "teabag" one another without realizing that it's a common reference to testicles, well, it shows a bit of a basic disconnect. Actual transcript from one of these "Tea Parties":

Woman: [Shouts] “Burn the books!” [applause]

Man: “I don’t think you were serious about that, were you?”

Woman: “I am too.”

Man: “Burn all the books?!”

Woman: “The ones in college, those, those brainwashing books.”

Man: “[laughs] Brainwashing books?”

Woman: “Yes.”

Man: “Which ones are those?”

Woman: “Like, the evolution crap, and, yeah...”

Video.

"Is it good to throw reason out"? And when will you stop beating your dog? How did you fare in that date-rape trial? Is it good to stick needles under your fingernails? Ask me a non-rhetorical question and I'll give you a serious answer.

[Dutch_guy]

He hasn't even been in office for six months, it's only fair we give him some more time before we judge him. It has been said, no harm in saying it again though.

Carry on

[Marshal Murat]

I watched the video. I laughed. I cried. I cringed.

[Meneldil]

The rhetorical 180 made by the American conservatives is stunning, to say the least.

After 8 years of "give him (Dubya) some time", they go crazy on Obama's back as soon as something happen. Notwithstanding the fact that Dubya basically failed at everything, they kept on supporting him, because you know, with the war on terror and stuff, you can't criticize the head of the country.


Dudes, chill out, "give him some time"

Edit: Holy crap, this video is scary as ****. I'm glad right-wing nutcrackers fascist wanabes left western europe and moved to the US.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

...Edit: Holy crap, this video is scary as ****. I'm glad right-wing nutcrackers fascist wanabes left western europe and moved to the US.

Le Front National? The English BFN? You have your group of such wanabes as well.

Lemur/Vuk:

Thank you for dialing it back a notch.

[Strike For The South]

The rhetorical 180 made by the American conservatives is stunning, to say the least.

After 8 years of "give him (Dubya) some time", they go crazy on Obama's back as soon as something happen. Notwithstanding the fact that Dubya basically failed at everything, they kept on supporting him, because you know, with the war on terror and stuff, you can't criticize the head of the country.


Dudes, chill out, "give him some time"

Edit: Holy crap, this video is scary as ****. I'm glad right-wing nutcrackers fascist wanabes left western europe and moved to the US.

5,525,032 Frenchman are still there. Send us the good looking ones!

[Louis VI the Fat]

Some presidents have got it easier than others:

I'm glad right-wing nutcrackers fascist wanabes left western europe and moved to the US.

That's unfair on Americans. Back when they left, they were sane people whose only fault was that they were unemployed and couldn't make it in Europe and

We've all got our weirdo's.

[Spino]

The rhetorical 180 made by the American conservatives is stunning, to say the least.

After 8 years of "give him (Dubya) some time", they go crazy on Obama's back as soon as something happen. Notwithstanding the fact that Dubya basically failed at everything, they kept on supporting him, because you know, with the war on terror and stuff, you can't criticize the head of the country.


Dudes, chill out, "give him some time"

Uh, no. We really can't afford to give Obama time to 'figure things out'. One would think Americans learned some serious lessons about not taking things for granted given the legacy of the Clinton & Bush administrations but the election of Obama tells me this is not the case. So pray tell what is Obama doing right? What actions do you think he's taken that will mean a better future for Americans? By all means, please be specific.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Let me ask a very frank and serious question.


Obama detractors:

You know he won't have Republican-like policies while in office. So setting that aside, WHAT must he do to gain your support or respect? Be honest and serious. I want to know.

[a completely inoffensive name]

I am getting sick of conservatives calling him the Messiah when no one else does, wanting him to fail and abusing the symbols of Americas past for their own ridiculous message. It makes actual, sane conservatives look bad.

EDIT: Also, Obama not doing what half the country wants is not tyranny, its called losing.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Sorry, but if you don't want people to say that he is the Messiah, then do one of two things:

1) Stop making out that he is a hero coming to save us.
2) Criticize him for encouraging things like that on his campaign.

That being said, ATPG's question is a valid one.

[Askthepizzaguy]

My political affiliations, in case you're wondering, are admittedly ambiguous. I'm neither Republican nor Democrat; I liked Bush I and Clinton I. I hated Bush II and Clinton II. I thought Gulf War I was good, I thought the present war (the sequel) sucked big time.

I am economically conservative and socially liberal. I like more liberties and less government involvement, but I also see the merits of government intervention and regulation, to prevent terrible disasters, but not to attempt to "make everything all better".

Right now I can't find a job, and my college savings are all dried up. I'm in a miserable situation, and I could really use the help. But frankly, I'm not dying, and others could use it more.

I consider myself fair-minded and less partial to partisanship than most. That being said, I voted Obama and was appalled by McCain's campaign and Bush and Cheney in general.

[a completely inoffensive name]

My political affiliations, in case you're wondering, are admittedly ambiguous. I'm neither Republican nor Democrat

I am economically conservative and socially liberal. I like more liberties and less government involvement, but I also see the merits of government intervention and regulation, to prevent terrible disasters, but not to attempt to "make everything all better".

I consider myself fair-minded and less partial to partisanship than most.

This describes me perfectly as well.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Sorry, but if you don't want people to say that he is the Messiah, then do one of two things:

1) Stop making out that he is a hero coming to save us.
2) Criticize him for encouraging things like that on his campaign.

Because I have been totally riding on the Obama train. /s

The second one makes me laugh, because the job of a politician is to pretend as if you have all the answers and solutions.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Because I have been totally riding on the Obama train. /s

The right in question here is not mocking anyone who supports Obama, they are mocking those who give him an air not seen since Trudeaumania or Beatlemania - and rightly so, if I may add.

The second one makes me laugh, because the job of a politician is to pretend as if you have all the answers and solutions.

Having all the answers (or pretending to) does not make you Obamamessiah. That isn't what I said at all.