Red Cross Torture Report

[Tribesman]

Mr. Limbaugh, you've dropped several pegs in my books.

Well paint me pink bugger me sideways with a yardbrush and call me Sandra , Rush had a peg that he could drop off ?????
I thought he was a bottom freeding scum sucker that couldn't get any lower without the aid of some seriously stronger drugs.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Well paint me pink bugger me sideways with a yardbrush and call me Sandra , Rush had a peg that he could drop off ?????
I thought he was a bottom freeding scum sucker that couldn't get any lower without the aid of some seriously stronger drugs.

Sadly, Sandy, he's far from the bottom of the rung in that genre. Try dialing in Michael Savage on the "savagenation.com" or G Gordon Liddy. Rush is a genteel pundit compared to the real right-wing radio loons.

Sadly, the torture point is a good one. The only time torture ever has ANY moral justification is in a known "ticking bomb" situation. No such situations were known or suspected. Any of the answers generated could have been generated -- albeit more slowly -- via normal interrogation. The caller had a better point then Mr. Limbaugh.

[Vuk]

I have an opinion on most political issues, but torture is one of those things I am hung up on. I think torture is thouroughly disgusting, even if used for a good purpose. Unfortunately sometimes disgusting methods need to be used though. The problem is that if you arm someone with something so disgusting and powerful, how hard is it for them to misuse it? IMO, torture should be used only when absolutely necassary, to the minimal extent, on the worst scum, to stop innocents from being harmed. The problem is that it is not that simple, because someone has to make that call, and everyone is human and subject to error and greed. Just too many variables for me to form a solid opinion yet. (I have been thinking about it and reading about it and reading historical examples of it for years too, and I still have not decided :P)


EDIT: and I think it should NEVER be used as a punishment.

[Tribesman]

Sadly, Sandy, he's far from the bottom of the rung in that genre.

But he has the largest audience , swimming in the cess pit is no different from swimming in the cess pit, in his case he is worse because he gets more people to take a dip with him , splashing excrement around and calling it patriotism .

Rush is a genteel pundit compared to the real right-wing radio loons.

So Rush is a fruitbat but not like the realoutaspace fruitbats , thats some commendation

[Strike For The South]

I'm glad Spain has decided to give these officials some much needed time off and a European vacation. It's the least they could TBH.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Barack Obama today released four top secret memos that allowed the CIA under the Bush administration to torture al-Qaida and other suspects held at Guantánamo and secret detention centres round the world.

But, in an accompanying statement, Obama ruled out prosecutions against those who had been involved. It is a "time for reflection, not retribution," he said.

The memos provide an insight into the techniques used by the CIA and the legal basis on which the Bush administration gave the go-ahead.

In the first of the memos, dated 1 August 2002, the justice department gave the go-ahead to John Rizzo, then acting general counsel to the CIA, for operatives to move to the "increased pressure phase" in interrogating an al-Qaida suspect.

Ten techniques are approved, listed as: attention grasp, walling (in which the suspect could be pushed into a wall), a facial hold, a facial slap, cramped confinement, wall standing, sleep deprivation, insects placed in a confinement box (the suspect had a fear of insects) and the waterboard. In the latter, "the individual is bound securely to an inclined bench, which is approximately four feet by seven feet. The individual's feet are generally elevated. A cloth is placed over the forehead and eyes. Water is then applied to the cloth in a controlled manner........produces the perception of 'suffocation and incipient panic'."

The Gruniad

[KukriKhan]

But, in an accompanying statement, Obama ruled out prosecutions against those who had been involved. It is a "time for reflection, not retribution," he said.

I find the authors blameless, too. They were paid for their opinions, so they were obliged to imagine the worst, and provide them. It's the "deciders", those who authorized the use of the techniques, that require accountability.* In my opinion. However high up the chain that goes.

I suspect we might see Presidential pardons issued in coming weeks, in the interest of national healing and reconciliation. How those will play to the Left and Right... I dunno (and frankly, don't care. The principles involved are more important than the politics involved).

-edit-
*we've already prosecuted the Privates, PFC's and Sgt's for the Abu-G mistreatments. Time now for the Big Boys.

[rory_20_uk]

Ah yes, we establish principles. Better this than assign blame to anyone, although they take a massive salary due to the burdens of their job... The next time there's a crisis we can again ignore the principles and wring hands later.

[Lemur]

I don't suppose it's even worth pointing out that corporals and sergeants at Abu Ghraib were prosecuted for far less than is outlined in these memos. Moral of the story: Don't be a grunt who takes pictures.