Pirates seize U.S. freighter, hold captain for ransom

[Tribesman]

Does that mean we have to accept and respond to that territorial claim as though it were valid even if our nations have not accepted that claim?

Well you had a small problem before when your government chose to demonstrate that it didn't recognise a territorial claim . It led to a fake claim of outrage that your "innocent" warships had been attacked in international waters..which ledto a war you couldn't win .
So you don't have to recognise the claim , but if you wish to dispute it with warships instead of diplomacy then that is an act of war with you as the aggressor .

[rory_20_uk]

Well you had a small problem before when your government chose to demonstrate that it didn't recognise a territorial claim . It led to a fake claim of outrage that your "innocent" warships had been attacked in international waters..which ledto a war you couldn't win .
So you don't have to recognise the claim , but if you wish to dispute it with warships instead of diplomacy then that is an act of war with you as the aggressor .

Not really.

Sailing in the area is allowed. In your example, the country would be aggressively acting against the ships; the warships would be being aggressive if they used gunboat diplomacy and started bombarding the coast.
There is no recognised government in Somalia. Diplomicy? With who? Act of war. Against which country when there's no government?

[PershsNhpios]

I think this thread is beginning to show that the pirates are actually the victims in this situation.

[Furunculus]

bizarre, that isn't the impression i am getting.................

[Seamus Fermanagh]

So you don't have to recognise the claim , but if you wish to dispute it with warships instead of diplomacy then that is an act of war with you as the aggressor .

So we can dispute it diplomatically, where the likely result is a polite "get stuffed." [Not the only possible result of course, but probably the most likely]

OR

We can dispute it militarily, by "showing the flag" in waters they claim, in which case by so doing we are committing an act of war againt the Somalis.* I assume you would apply this equally to any foreign power so doing?

Bit of a lose-lose the way you frame it.

So, in your take Tribes, our only practical response is to -- at least de facto -- accept that they have full territorial control out to 200nm, keeping all warships outside that limit without express Somali permission. Am I summarizing correctly?


*Note: I would only acknowledge an act or war to have occurred if Somalis fire on us or we upon them, but that's my take on things.

[Tribesman]

Bit of a lose-lose the way you frame it.

Yep , it is isn't it , and expect more of it , look at the recent Russian extensions of their claims , the Iran/Iraq Iran/UAE disputes , the ongoing crap about Rockall , or for a really complicated one the spratley islands .

*Note: I would only acknowledge an act or war to have occurred if Somalis fire on us or we upon them, but that's my take on things.

Well that depends , when the Maddox (among others) was ordered to operate inside the 12 mile limit to demonstrate that America only recognised the 3 mile limit then that was an act of agression to dispute a territorial claim which is an act of war .

So, in your take Tribes, our only practical response is to -- at least de facto -- accept that they have full territorial control out to 200nm, keeping all warships outside that limit without express Somali permission. Am I summarizing correctly?

No , warships still have the right of innocent passage , though the country which claims the waters can dispute the innocence of the vessels present . Just like Iran did with the British navy as the navy boats were not doing an innocent transit which is why the admiralty (and the UN whose mandate they were operating under) said they shouldn't enter the disputed area .
But since this concerns illegal fishing and waste dumping then somalia is in the right as it claims them as territorial waters and that gives them jurisdiction over exploition of resources and pollution incidents, piracy is different as that is a global crime where everyone has jurisdiction .