How is it terrorism when they kill soldiers?

[HoreTore]

Are you like this in real life?

To be frank, the amount of hatred you seem to carry for so many divergant groups is disturbing.

Soldiers do a job which is very dangerous, most of the ones who see combat have night terrors, PTSD etc. My Grandfather cries every armistice day because he was the only one to survive his AA gun being hit.

So, why no compassion?

"Hatred" is the wrong term. "Uncaring" is a better one.

And I do differentiate between a defender and an invader, and one who had a choice and one who did not.

I really don't understand this, from any political viewpoint. One may not agree with the mission a soldier is given, but he has a mother who will grieve.

Even a pacifist values the human life of the military, if not their role.

Shameful is one description. Morally bankrupt is another. I admit to some degree of surprise.

So does every soldier. Including enemy soldiers. The thing is I should only care about "my own", right? I don't have to care about "the enemy"?

I'm sorry if it bothers you, but I refuse to care about German soldiers who lost their lives in WW2, Vietcong soldiers who lost their lives in the Vietnam war, NATO soldiers who lost their lives in Afghanistan or Taliban soldiers who lost their lives in Afghanistan.

Most people only care about one of those four. I don't see how I'm morally bankrupt or shameful because I don't care about any of them.

[Banquo's Ghost]

"Hatred" is the wrong term. "Uncaring" is a better one.

And I do differentiate between a defender and an invader, and one who had a choice and one who did not.

But that differentiation is not what you wrote:

Nope. As far as I'm concerned, people are dead when they sign the contract to go to war. If they come back, then woo-hoo, if not, well, it was to be expected.

That implies soldiers, regardless of motivation, should be considered dead (and by extension, I suppose, undeserving of any rights or compassion). I can't see the moral reasoning for that statement, and "because I don't care" brings no illumination. It's a kind of nihilism, and therefore strikes me as morally bankrupt.

So does every soldier. Including enemy soldiers. The thing is I should only care about "my own", right? I don't have to care about "the enemy"?

I'm sorry if it bothers you, but I refuse to care about German soldiers who lost their lives in WW2, Vietcong soldiers who lost their lives in the Vietnam war, NATO soldiers who lost their lives in Afghanistan or Taliban soldiers who lost their lives in Afghanistan.

Most people only care about one of those four. I don't see how I'm morally bankrupt or shameful because I don't care about any of them.

I have never said that you should care only about your own. Soldiers are trained to objectify an enemy so that they too "don't care" about the lives they are required to take. That training however, does not in most cases remove the moral dilemma that killing in a cause brings to one's psyche. For you to dismiss all such men and women with such casual disdain strikes me as a rather brutal generalisation.

But then that is the tragedy of hard-line socialism - it always comes down to caring more about the concepts than the human beings, despite bleating loudly that the latter's interests are it's raison d'etre.

[HoreTore]

That implies soldiers, regardless of motivation, should be considered dead (and by extension, I suppose, undeserving of any rights or compassion). I can't see the moral reasoning for that statement, and "because I don't care" brings no illumination. It's a kind of nihilism, and therefore strikes me as morally bankrupt.

No, that implies that I do my mourning when they sign the contract.

But anyway, Banqou, since you say that socialists don't care about human beings, I take it you're not a socialist? And that would mean that you weep for the fallen Taliban soldiers, right? Every last one of them? And.... That would also mean that you're willing to protect them, right? Because weeping at people's death and not wanting to do anything to prevent their deaths, that strikes me as kinda... How'd you put it? "Morally bankrupt"?

[Banquo's Ghost]

But anyway, Banqou, since you say that socialists don't care about human beings, I take it you're not a socialist? And that would mean that you weep for the fallen Taliban soldiers, right? Every last one of them? And.... That would also mean that you're willing to protect them, right? Because weeping at people's death and not wanting to do anything to prevent their deaths, that strikes me as kinda... How'd you put it? "Morally bankrupt"?

I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say in the above paragraph, but I'll try to respond as I understand your point.

Firstly, no I'm not a socialist. However, I fail to understand why not being so automatically requires one to "weep" for the Taliban.

I am opposed to the war in Afghanistan, though I had some sympathy for reasons of the original attack. A continued occupation is foolish, in my opinion. I have campaigned against such wars. However, I think I have been consistent in my approach when mourning all loss of life. I understand why the Taliban take up arms, and would remove NATO soldiers from harm's way because we achieve nothing save more death. I would also mourn the dead yet to come when the likely murderous Islamic regime that the Taliban would instigate began its orgy of revenge.

I have taken up arms in defence of the things I believed in. I fought in a war against invasion by a dictatorship, and defended to the best of my ability the civilians of both my countries caught up in terrorism. I killed in that defence, and the faces of those dead men haunt me still - not because I was wrong, but because they were still human beings however much they wanted to kill me first. They are part of my life, and I feel it the more keenly because I lost someone dear to me too. I wish none of it had to happen.

Nowadays, I spend much of my time supporting Amnesty International to help preserve rights and human life. You may well consider writing letters, fund-raising and campaigning to be trivial but I feel part of something that I have seen bring results.

Your hatred of the war in Afghanistan should not extend to the men and women who are doing their best to bring a better life to the people of that benighted country - however Sisyphean that task. And you still haven't provided the moral framework for the statement you made, which is why I applied the term "morally bankrupt".

Of course, I would like us to be in the position where no-one has to die in wars or jails, pointlessly or otherwise. It's a rare soldier that having seen war and death, wishes it to go on needlessly. I have done, and continue to do, what I can to make that vision a reality. Maybe I have made wrong decisions. But at least I cannot be accused of "not caring".

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I have taken up arms in defence of the things I believed in. I fought in a war against invasion by a dictatorship, and defended to the best of my ability the civilians of both my countries caught up in terrorism. I killed in that defence, and the faces of those dead men haunt me still - not because I was wrong, but because they were still human beings however much they wanted to kill me first. They are part of my life, and I feel it the more keenly because I lost someone dear to me too. I wish none of it had to happen.

Nowadays, I spend much of my time supporting Amnesty International to help preserve rights and human life. You may well consider writing letters, fund-raising and campaigning to be trivial but I feel part of something that I have seen bring results.

Your hatred of the war in Afghanistan should not extend to the men and women who are doing their best to bring a better life to the people of that benighted country - however Sisyphean that task. And you still haven't provided the moral framework for the statement you made, which is why I applied the term "morally bankrupt".

Of course, I would like us to be in the position where no-one has to die in wars or jails, pointlessly or otherwise. It's a rare soldier that having seen war and death, wishes it to go on needlessly. I have done, and continue to do, what I can to make that vision a reality. Maybe I have made wrong decisions. But at least I cannot be accused of "not caring".

I was going to write something about the soldier's mindset as I have encountered it, but Banquo is far more eloquent as usual.

I would add that in a democracy with a volanteer military many who join up do so on the principle that, If I don't do it someone else will have to."

Such men and women deserve our respect, regardless of their actions.

[Husar]

I would add that in a democracy with a volanteer military many who join up do so on the principle that, If I don't do it someone else will have to."

Or: If I can't find any other job, that one will have to do.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Well put, BG, well put.