I laugh in the face of White Supremacist groups

[Askthepizzaguy]

A threat, maybe, potentially, but these sort of groups still are insignificant. This one used to be large. Now it's a couple of guys in Idaho.

CR

A single white supremacist can commit a hate crime. 2 or 3 can cause significant damage to a community. A small, small gang can terrorize a community.

Insignificant to the nation's security as a whole... MAYBE. Insignificant to any non-whites living around there? I think not.

If I were jewish, living in a small community, and there was a group, albeit a small one, marching in pro-Nazi demonstrations, I'd fear for my family, and I'd be dismayed at the lack of backlash against them and the apathy towards them and the tacit support people show by defending them or doing nothing.

[Crazed Rabbit]

A single white supremacist can commit a hate crime. 2 or 3 can cause significant damage to a community. A small, small gang can terrorize a community.

Bah. What have these people done? They distributed leaflets so more people would apply for their special club and decoder ring. Your talk of communities being terrorized is hyperbole.

This group is insignificant. Let me know if they do anything of which you warn.

I'd be dismayed at the lack of backlash against them and the apathy towards them and the tacit support people show by defending them or doing nothing.

What do you mean, doing nothing? This is America, where even jerks and bigots can express their opinions freely.

CR

[Askthepizzaguy]

Bah. What have these people done? They distributed leaflets so more people would apply for their special club and decoder ring. Your talk of communities being terrorized is hyperbole.

This group is insignificant. Let me know if they do anything of which you warn.

Well, I'm sure someone else can give you a bunch of links to hate crimes committed in America by hate groups like these. How many murders must happen before you consider it a possibility that they might strike again?

What do you mean, doing nothing? This is America, where even jerks and bigots can express their opinions freely.

Of course; by terrorizing communities, spreading vicious lies about black people, encouraging racial hatred and spreading ignorance, they are exercising their rights as an American. And I am doing the same, by denouncing their worthless drivel as being harmful to America.

Lovely how that works. The same freedom they use to abuse is the freedom I use to stand up to those bullies.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Of course; by terrorizing communities, spreading vicious lies about black people, encouraging racial hatred and spreading ignorance, they are exercising their rights as an American. And I am doing the same, by denouncing their worthless drivel as being harmful to America.

Lovely how that works. The same freedom they use to abuse is the freedom I use to stand up to those bullies.

It is better that they express their opinions to the public, where they can be laughed at and ridiculed by citizens like yourself. If they didn't have the right to speak up (and we didn't have the right to ridicule them), I think their movement would be much larger than it is now, because they would silently build.

[Askthepizzaguy]

It is better that they express their opinions to the public, where they can be laughed at and ridiculed by citizens like yourself. If they didn't have the right to speak up (and we didn't have the right to ridicule them), I think their movement would be much larger than it is now, because they would silently build.

Indeed! I wholeheartedly agree!

I would never begin to act to take away their right to say such awful things. However, once their silly viewpoint has been made public, I believe wholeheartedly that a counter-demonstration, with about a thousand times more people, would show them and the world how little we think of their viewpoint, and how much we celebrate racial equality, tolerance, and the betterment of mankind as a whole.

Freedom of speech: it is the sunlight which drives away those that fester in darkness.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Well, I'm sure someone else can give you a bunch of links to hate crimes committed in America by hate groups like these. How many murders must happen before you consider it a possibility that they might strike again?

How many murders has this group committed? Any? Or, actually, any hate groups across the country recently?

When you say 'groups like these' you reveal that this group is insignificant - what I said in the first place- because you are forced to reference other groups in order to provide support to your argument that this and similar hate groups are dangerous.

Lovely how that works. The same freedom they use to abuse is the freedom I use to stand up to those bullies.

Standing up is a bit much to describe your actions; you've made fun of them on the internet. That's it. Usually, I think standing up to someone requires them actually being at least slightly aware of your actions.

CR

[Askthepizzaguy]

How many murders has this group committed? Any? Or, actually, any hate groups across the country recently? When you say 'groups like these' you reveal that this group is insignificant - what I said in the first place- because you are forced to reference other groups in order to provide support to your argument that this and similar hate groups are dangerous. Standing up is a bit much to describe your actions; you've made fun of them on the internet. That's it. Usually, I think standing up to someone requires them actually being at least slightly aware of your actions. CR

Well ya got me. Speaking out against hate groups who spread vile ignorance against entire races of people makes me both a coward and a bad human being.

I concede to your superior argument.

[Fragony]

flagwaving loonies, all bravoure just ignore them.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Well ya got me. Speaking out against hate groups who spread vile ignorance against entire races of people makes me both a coward and a bad human being.

I concede to your superior argument.

______ _____________

Congratulations sir, you have constructed a strawman! And what a strawman it is! You win the weekly strawman contest and are hereby awarded a coupon redeemable for $.50 off your next purchase of bread at your local Wal-Mart.

Now, as I have no idea what "Aryan Nation" is up to, I can't really comment on what they're doing.

But our own brands of neo-nazi are quite the active chaps. No-one forgets Benjamin Hermansen, who was killed a few years ago by a small gang of Nazi's, for the simple reason that he was african. I can't remember if they were looking for a random african to kill, or if they decided to kill when they saw Benjamin.

Here they used to have a compound or some buildings in North Idaho before they lost it all in a lawsuit. They used to go on marches where everyone booed them. Certainly nothing of what you describe.

Now they're even more pathetic. Probably only a few guys who printed up some leaflets and distributed them, with a very old school website.

CR

[Askthepizzaguy]

And what a strawman it is!

Thanks!

In all seriousness, I've dealt with racists and bullies in-person plenty of times. It's simply the problem that I'm at my computer and have no way to get to Idaho that I can't form my own protest group. And there are plenty of examples of small neo-Nazi groups causing violence in any country they are in; because they are hateful little racists. So the defenses people give of these racists I find both amusing and tiresome, depending on how much of it I see. And a little troubling, to be frank.

It all boils down to "oh, they aren't hurting anyone... it's free speech, let them do what they want."

When they burn crosses and picket outside of businesses of minorities, spread vicious lies and incite hatred of another vast group of people, when they consider human beings to be nothing more than animals, when they are actively trying to recruit others to their viewpoint, then they are hurting people, and it may be free speech but nothing is stopping us from using our free speech in return against them.

It's best to keep an eye on these hate groups. When they have the numbers they need and they stop being such chicken *bleeps*, they will attack the people they hate. It's only a matter of time. Much like NAMBLA; assuming they got large enough numbers, they would attempt to legislate their viewpoint, and in the meantime, you should keep an eye on them because they are likely to molest children. With hate groups it is the same; if they were large enough they would segregate and deport people they hated, remove rights, and legislate intolerance. In the meantime, they are the most likely out of all of us to engage in racial violence, because it is consistent with their beliefs and ideology.

Others have given examples of violence done by groups like these. And it is a fair comparison; Neo-Nazi groups all have similar stated positions, goals, targets, and agendas. That's why they are all identified as Neo-Nazis, they share something in common. And because the ideology itself that they are spreading treats other human beings as inferior, it's not prejudice to lump them together. It is in fact what they teach, what they believe. If I thought all members of a group were racist, that would be prejudice, unless the group itself teaches hate and engages in racism, and is in fact a racist group. They do exist.

I admit I was a bit tired of all the defenses yesterday and didn't have the energy or desire to formulate a cogent counter-argument, so out of exasperation, I didn't do your argument justice. But even so, to be honest, I don't find your argument to have much merit. These people are literally one step away from being Nazis themselves, they even tattoo swastikas on their foreheads. The only thing missing so far is the violence, and there's ample evidence that something like that could happen again, as it has happened a thousand times over with Neo-Nazi groups.

I am saying that all Nazi-fanboy groups are essentially the same, because they base their ideology on the belief that their genetics make them inherently superior to all others. This isn't based in science, and it isn't based in reason, and it does not lead to anything good either. It leads to a division in our society which is harmful and destructive, and there's countless instances of racism throughout history leading to violence and death. So when people step forward and say, you know, a little bit (a lot, in fact) of rampant racism from a group is nothing to be concerned about because they haven't done anything YET; I really have to wonder.

If someone talks about how much they hate you, is that something to worry about?
If someone organizes a group dedicated to how much they hate you, is that something to worry about?
If someone teaches to that group how superior they are to you, and how the world would be better off without you, is that something to worry about?
If they were to then arm themselves, using their second amendment rights, and speak about defending the Aryan Brotherhood from infiltration from the lesser beings, would that be something to worry about?
What if they spoke of driving these sub-humans out of their communities, and their states, and their country, with force if necessary, would that be something to worry about?
If they approached a group of people they stated they hated, pointed their weapons at them, and were about to pull the trigger, would that be something to worry about?

After all, no violence has been committed just yet. Just because others in their position have done harm, there is no way of knowing if they too will follow in the footsteps of countless others and harm the people they incite violence against. And I'm just talking physical violence. What about verbal harassment and intimidation? What about hate speech and inciting violence?

Isn't there a rule where you can't shout "fire" in a crowded theater because that's not protected free speech? Well if you teach that certain human beings are inferior to you, maybe that shouldn't be protected free speech either. However, the louder they shout it, the more aware of it I become, and that is why I want to see it protected. And if I had people like that in my community, spreading vile hatred, I'd very much organize my own protest group and get the proper permits and march around town, following their group, cell phone at the ready, to make sure if they turn violent or start harassing people, they are immediately taken care of. (i.e. calling the police)

Vigilance... that's all I am advocating. I never said we should bust down their doors and lynch them for hatred. People are allowed to be hateful and ignorant. I am saying keep your eyes out and DON'T dismiss them as harmless when their group's stated ideology rejects peaceful coexistence with members of our community. They are, in my opinion, a cancerous tumor on society, and if it turns out to be malignant, as I think it is, then they should all be rounded up and imprisoned. As soon as the first fist is thrown, the first victim harassed, the first bullet is shot, their entire group should be considered organized criminals and should be penalized to the fullest extent of the law, using every single possible reason to throw the book at them and lock them away for a long time.

At least that's how I think it should be. In a perfect world, we could just look at them, see what they are doing, and tell them to stop it because it's not welcome, and if we see more of it, onto a rickety raft they will go somewhere in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, and best of luck to them.

Have I made it clear how much I love racists? Not welcome. Not a legitimate alternative civilized viewpoint. Never been productive, never been beneficial, and it's always led to friction, unhappiness, and hatred. Cancerous tumor. If malignant, should be removed. That's all.

Because America stands for not just protected freedoms; but also protected rights, and tolerance and acceptance. Hate is not something I want in America.

[HoreTore]

Bah. What have these people done? They distributed leaflets so more people would apply for their special club and decoder ring. Your talk of communities being terrorized is hyperbole.

Now, as I have no idea what "Aryan Nation" is up to, I can't really comment on what they're doing.

But our own brands of neo-nazi are quite the active chaps. No-one forgets Benjamin Hermansen, who was killed a few years ago by a small gang of Nazi's, for the simple reason that he was african. I can't remember if they were looking for a random african to kill, or if they decided to kill when they saw Benjamin.

One death may not sound like all that much, but remember that this is in a tiny country with ome 50 murders per year...

Aside from that, they're very busy terrorizing asylums and the tiny Jewish community in Oslo. One of their most despicable hobbies is to terrorize one particular asylum(can't remember its name atm), where all the occupants are orphans. Can you imagine that? A 10 year old who just saw his mother raped and father killed in Afghanistan, for example, comes there thinking he's finally safe, and then some decides to shoot randomly into the complex. One thing is when you attack adults, it's something else when you attack children, and just plain evil when you attack vulnerable children like these.

[Fragony]

What is it with scandinavian that they all want to be the most racist country. One racist murder wow, that is one more then we have had here so far.

[HoreTore]

What is it with scandinavian that they all want to be the most racist country. One racist murder wow, that is one more then we have had here so far.

Wanting to be the most racists country? No.... I don't think these groups "represent" my country in any way... They are small groups of nutters, but they are quite capable of causing trouble.

Further, I don't think we're very racists at all. And I think the reason for that is that we focus strongly on it when it does happen, and are very good at voicing our objections to it.

[Vuk]

Wanting to be the most racists country? No.... I don't think these groups "represent" my country in any way... They are small groups of nutters, but they are quite capable of causing trouble.

Further, I don't think we're very racists at all. And I think the reason for that is that we focus strongly on it when it does happen, and are very good at voicing our objections to it.

You Scandinavians are the most racist race in the world! I hate your racist race of racists you racist racist!

[Fragony]

Further, I don't think we're very racists at all. And I think the reason for that is that we focus strongly on it when it does happen, and are very good at voicing our objections to it.

Making an elephant out of a mosquito as we say here. Neo-nazi's are disgusting but nobody takes them seriously here. Not to say that these fruitcakes who harass orphans don't deserve a very thourough beating, idiots.

[Vuk]

Making an elephant out of a mosquito as we say here.

You can do that?
Remind me never to underestimate Dutch science again...

PS, why has this not caused the legal ivory business to explode? Is it an expensive procedure?