Republika Molotova Revolts

[Prince Cobra]

I am sorry but this goes slightly to the other extreme. I will have to say few words.

Yes, if you consider Moldovans to the Romanians. Which the Moldovans do not (How many times do we have to repeat it?)

I can claim that the Chinese are Greeks and demand Shanghai to be united with our glorious Greek 'Motherland' but that is just silly, it won't make it happen, and the Chinese will quite rightly tell me to off (yes like the Moldovans do to Romanians!)...

Well, I think the closest case is Macedonia/Bulgaria and Cyprus/Greece and Turkey. I think there are many historical reasons to call the people of Moldavia people with "Romanian" origin. What is Romania: an union between Wallachia and Moldavia. Yet, this does not mean Romania shall annex Moldavia. In the same way as Cyprus was not annexed by Greece or Macedonia by Bulgaria. It's not how the modern policy shall work!

Now now, to write a 2000 word essay on Moldovlachia just to bash them as a bastard state is uncalled for...

Also you should consider how much of my tax money is going to Romania as EU aid so I only get 20 Romanian people a day pestering me to clean my windscreen at the traffic lights for coins.

As I said before, Romania should clear it's own mess first and make sure it provides enough for it's citizens before caring about how poor Moldova is.

You are right Romania and Bulgaria (I am Bulgarian btw) failed in many things. Yet, this does not mean they are lost causes. In the same way as Greece was not a lost cause after the WW2. We leave in one peninsula. Of course, the Romanian and Bulgarian people and politicians shall not sit idle but be as active as possible to develop their countries. For you are right, we can not rely on foreign money.

About paying money. If certain conditions are met, I see nothing bad in the near future Bulgaria to pay money for the integration say of Macedonia or Moldavia. But of course, EU is not charity.

And please, I am fed up with the image of the Bulgarians and Romanians as illegal workers or second-hand people. This is only one part of the picture. I know quite a good number people who earn their money (both in Bulgaria and abroad) honestly.

Yes, it is called diplomacy...

Cheers

Diplomacy is the key. Here I agree 100 per cent. Otherwise, I agree Cronos Impera was quite extreme in certain thoughts.

[edyzmedieval]

It's called capitalism for a reason - call me a bit of an extremist over here, but if the people are lazy and don't want to work, why should we give them aid? I would gladly help those who cannot work, because they cannot be employed for different reasons, but why those who can but who don't want to? My point is that we care about Moldavia because they're Romanians, Moldavian is simply a dialect (not even) of Romanian, and lots of Moldavians are Romanian. Why should we care for those who are in deep **** because of their inability?

And, no, the Moldovans do want unification with Romania, it's just that the votes are rigged by Voronin and his gang of happy commies who want to kiss Putin's backside so they can lounge in their big palaces and Mercedes Benz's.

So yeah, it should belong to us, we lost it because of the USSR in 1945, for the same reason we lost the Cadrilater to Bulgaria, Bucovina to Ukraine and nothern Transylvania to Hungary. And before they were 100% Romanian. If it wouldn't have been for those lousy Russki commies, then Romania would be a totally different place.

Bucharest was called Little Paris for a reason.

[Cronos Impera]

Please Edyz, you don't support this converstion in any way by adopting a partisan stance. You still need to master the force before you use it in such a sensitive issue. Good luck and please try be more mature. I don't militate for the annexation of MSSR by Romania (that piece of land shall be named Moldova over my dead body). I am simply for the dismantling of this state, not unification (though that is an alternative).
By the way Hellas, the Moldovans have a case for a separate ethnicity as FYROM citizens have to be called Macedonians. Not to mention the two languages are nearly identical and that the recognition of Moldova separate from Romania emplies the same revisionism from Moldova over Romania and Ukraine as Macedonia currently has.
I'm not implying MSSR citizens should forcibly unite with Romania but I hate seeing how their independence figures try to dismantle Romanian cultural unity and ultimately antagonise Romanian citizens (remember the Moldovan struggle for a separate identity meant adding revisions to the portraits of already famous historical Romanian people).It's like FYROM claims Alexander the Great while cursing Hellas. In Hellas this is hardly an issue as FYROM has a different language and culture that Hellas, but Romania's culture is almost identical to that of Moldova.It's like S.Cyprus claming the whole Ionian Sea islands from greece claming a Dorian heritage.
And last, you Greeks should know better than anyone that Romanians/Wallachians/Vlachs/Moldavians speak the same language. You ruled over Wallachia and Moldavia for over two centuries. Romania is called Romania simply because after the Ottoman conquest the native elite was slowly replaced with a Hellenic one. That Hellenic elite (see The Fanariots, Cantacuzenos in Romania and so on) came mostly from Adrianopole/Constantinopole...a region you call Romania (see old maps of Europe)

[KarlXII]

Here is a political cartoon describing the stalemete.

I see a black, U.S. cowboy, an angry EU with a clock, and a lot of other images that looks like something out of a hippy kids Saturday morning cartoon. I cannot read the text, but I don't think I want to, given your stance.

[edyzmedieval]

Please Edyz, you don't support this converstion in any way by adopting a partisan stance. You still need to master the force before you use it in such a sensitive issue. Good luck and please try be more mature. I don't militate for the annexation of MSSR by Romania (that piece of land shall be named Moldova over my dead body). I am simply for the dismantling of this state, not unification (though that is an alternative).

Give me the explicit "I want to annex Moldavia" and I shall leave this thread. "Should" doesn't mean I want to annex, so get your facts right before.

And last, you Greeks should know better than anyone that Romanians/Wallachians/Vlachs/Moldavians speak the same language. You ruled over Wallachia and Moldavia for over two centuries. Romania is called Romania simply because after the Ottoman conquest the native elite was slowly replaced with a Hellenic one. That Hellenic elite (see The Fanariots, Cantacuzenos in Romania and so on) came mostly from Adrianopole/Constantinopole...a region you call Romania (see old maps of Europe)

Your point on this being?

[rasoforos]

[B]

By the way Hellas, the Moldovans have a case for a separate ethnicity as FYROM citizens have to be called Macedonians.

It's like FYROM claims Alexander the Great while cursing Hellas. In Hellas this is hardly an issue as FYROM has a different language and culture that Hellas, but Romania's culture is almost identical to that of Moldova.

Imagine if, in the name of FYROM trying to 'borrow' (in need for a better word) our history, we decide to annex them claiming they are somehow Greek. What would that make us?

But this is besides the point. It does not matter if they (Moldovans) speak the same language, have the same culture and share ancestors. What matters is whether they feel like they are a different country or not. And they do. Canada speaks English and is culturaly close to the U.S.A (sort of) and most of their citizens come from similar Anglo-Saxonic stock but this does not provide a justification for annexation.

The Moldovans do not want to join Romania and the story should end there in my book.

And please, I am fed up with the image of the Bulgarians and Romanians as illegal workers or second-hand people. This is only one part of the picture. I know quite a good number people who earn their money (both in Bulgaria and abroad) honestly.

Stephen Asen

Quite right. I am not implying anything about how hard working they are. We have Bulgarians and Moldovans and Bulgarians on our staff and they are good hardworking nice people. What I wanted to imply is that Romania needs to settle their issues at home before they partake on a quest of imperialistic acquisitions. When so many millions of a country's population are forced into a life of destitution it is hardly a time to ask another country to join them in misery.

P.S If you visit Athens anytime soon drop me a PM ;)

[Cronos Impera]

Imagine if, in the name of FYROM trying to 'borrow' (in need for a better word) our history, we decide to annex them claiming they are somehow Greek. What would that make us?

But this is besides the point. It does not matter if they (Moldovans) speak the same language, have the same culture and share ancestors. What matters is whether they feel like they are a different country or not. And they do. Canada speaks English and is culturaly close to the U.S.A (sort of) and most of their citizens come from similar Anglo-Saxonic stock but this does not provide a justification for annexation.

The Moldovans do not want to join Romania and the story should end there in my book.

Than why doesn't Hellas support the independence of Transdneister like it supports "RM".
Transdneister is a working republic like MSSR, has all the requirements for being considered a state and not a micronation (see Sealand for reference). And that status has been consolidated through an independence war, not a political agreement between former Soviet republics.And they at least had the decency to create a completely new identity for them, and didn't steal Romanian/Russian history.
They even have their own national hero and Government buildings like any other nation. They even have 3 soccer teams.

Those people do not want to join MSSR yet the EU tries to glue them into a forcefull union so Russia can withdraw an army stationed there and NATO expansion to proceed without any jeopardy in the area. Yet Transdneister can stand on its own without any international aid.

Proclaim Transdneister an independent state "de jure" and MSSR loses all the heavy industry + a nice stadium. But we don't want MSSR to decompose as a state so we just keep denying Transdneister's existance. MSSR, we hope is West-orientated and democratic so we'll keep that wreack afloat no matter what it takes and no matter how the independence of MSSR affects the lives of millions.
Remember this state has just backstabed its closest ally both in the Transdneistria War and arrested/imposed visas/assasinated/demonised it antagonising the region. Imagine FYROM politicians blaming Greeks for the Yugoslav Wars and killing Greek citizens or citizenship apllicants. What can you do, you can't just invade/partition FYROM. Those people name themselves Macedonians, not greeks. It would be a sign of Greek Imperialism.

And corruption/crime is a hell in both so I can hardly see a problem for allowing Transdneister independence. With a little UN help Transdneister could soon surpass MSSR in terms of human rights.
Even the Gagauz in Comrat want to further their autonomy towards complete independence.

Canada is a viable state with an individual history. Such is the case for Austria/Germany/Switzerland.

You may consider me a "Moldovan" as well. Like you consider yourself an Athenian and your neighbour may consider himself/herself a Spartan, people in Romania consider themselves either Moldovan/Oltenian/Muntenian/Maramuresean/Bukovinean/Timisorean....when they go to a pub and bitch about their birthplace. But when it comes to complete a survey they complete "Romanian". It's not that hard for a Muntenian to speak "Moldovanwise" as 48% of The Voievodate of Moldova is in Romania and when a Romanian meets a Romanian he is either Moldovan/Oltenian.......but when a Romanian meets a Hellenes he is "Romanian".

And the people who you met with that claimed they ware "Moldovan" and not Romanian ware either proles or thinkpol. Proles swollow every ideology that suits them (they don't care go around the corner) while thinkpol are like the ones that have been responsible for the execution of at least 10 pro-Romanian MSSR intelectuals.

If you want to see the real "Moldova" come to Botosani/Ipotesti/Suceava. Good wine/good food/geuinue Moldovan experience without the "anti-fscist" ideological content you see beyond the river Prut. You'll understand than who's Moldovan and who is a Comintern claming he's Moldovan so he could establish a Russian Krajina.

[Louis VI the Fat]

It's threads like this that keep me coming back to the Backroom.


We all have our little pet subjects. Mine is democracy and the EU in Europe. Below, a picture of protesters raising the EU flag over the Parliament in Chisinau. A glorious sight.




This being Moldova, the protesters were arrested, severly beaten, and tortured by the Moldovan authorities.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Moldovan music!!

Chipul tãu si dragostea din tei.


Edit: Which proves that anything sounds cool in a Latin language. Now that I think about it, Romanian has quite a nice, soft 'ring' to it. Great language.

[Cronos Impera]

Îmi amintesc de ochii tăi.
......
And I didn't even have to go to a Romanian-Moldavian dictionary for that.



It it just me, or does anybody find suspicious that the policemen allow them to raise the EU flag while doing nothing and than "arrest" them.
It looks to me like a set-up so the authorities could blame the protesters for attacking a public institution so they could shoot them at will.
It's nothing to cheer about actually. If you've read 1984 this tactic is simmilar enough to that used by O'Brian to lure Winston out of his defensive stance, to surprise him off-guard and eliminate him. Than you get the 2 minutes hate in the news bulletin about Romanian vandals attacking Moldova, so people there feel even more "Moldovan".
The other thing I remember was that during the protests the borders ware closed for Romanian citizens so very few, if any ware in MSSR. Those who had arrived in MSSR ware either arrested evacuated. But despite this, Voronin claims that "Moldovan freedom and sovereingty ware threatened by Romanian bandits and European agencies.I'll impose visas on Romanian citizens."

[rasoforos]

Than why doesn't Hellas support the independence of Transdneister like it supports "RM".

For the last time Cronos. I state my opinion, I do not represent my country. And I am also heavily biased because of bi-annual Moldovan Brandy bribes. Jesus Christ...

[QUOTE=Cronos Impera;2220207]

Canada is a viable state with an individual history. Such is the case for Austria/Germany/Switzerland.

Who judges when a country is viable or not? Some would say Romania with it's huge corruption is not really viable. Some mustachioed guy back in the 40's thought that a lot countries are not viable and should thus be incorporated into the Reich. Do you really want to take that path?

Individual history also is a relative term. If we were to annex countries just because their individual history is short then there should only be Greece, Egypt and the Chinese in the world...come now, that sounds a bit silly doesn't it?

You may consider me a "Moldovan" as well. Like you consider yourself an Athenian and your neighbour may consider himself/herself a Spartan, p

Oh I assure you I would never consider myself an Athenian. Shoot me if I ever do. What a thing to say...

And the people who you met with that claimed they ware "Moldovan" and not Romanian ware either proles or thinkpol.

It is actually the MNDRC (Moldovan National Dissasociation from Romania Conspiracy). They have devised this cunning and evil plan whereby they sent a bunch of Moldovans to a Greek guy to convince him to become their champion. Their hapless victim (me that is,now fully impregnated by MNDRC propaganda) will now unknowingly promote MNDRC interests and win, thus securing an independent Moldova and complete Moldovan domination in the international Brandy market!

What are the statistical odds? Yes, I know...

[Cronos Impera]

How can I bribe you then?
Palinka, tuica, afinata, caisata, visinata, wine, beer.
Sends an emissary with a large cargo of palinka to Rasoforos.Waiting for conformation.

[Sarmatian]

It it just me, or does anybody find suspicious that the policemen allow them to raise the EU flag while doing nothing and than "arrest" them.

Fox Mulder, call your office please...

He's the only one who can get to the bottom of this. It might take him several seasons, but I don't see another way...

[rasoforos]

How can I bribe you then?
Palinka, tuica, afinata, caisata, visinata, wine, beer.
Sends an emissary with a large cargo of palinka to Rasoforos.Waiting for conformation.

Little bit of all would do. (I had to do some google searches but it all looks really great to me ).

Now let me PM you my address and let's get Moldova back to the Motherland

[Strike For The South]

This beats the normal talk we have about Western Europe. I like these fireworks, so much passion from you folks. Good show :popcorn:

[Aemilius Paulus]

Whew, that is quite a bit of pages there, and I do not have time to read them, so I am not going to argue for anything.

However, I have lived in Moldova for quite some time (month or even more) every summer since my uncle and grandparents still live there. My relatives are scattered all over Russia, Ukraine, and Moldova due to the breakup of USSR. So I know the country well, its culture, its outlooks on Romani and EU, etc. If anyone has a point to contest, they can ask me if they wish. All I will say is that from what I have read in the thread, there does not seem to be any Moldovans here (only Romanians - hardly unbiased!) and that quite some people made rather inaccurate statements that were caused by their unfamiliarity with the country and the situation.

In any case, I support the reunification, as I always favour unification of similar entities. For all I care, Belarus should join Russia, All three Baltic countries should also cohere, and etc. It may not be realistic, but people need to learn how to get along. Also, the Moldovan communists are just a name, mainly designed to appeal to the nostalgic pensioners remembering the better days. Economist describes them as "centre right". I am pretty sure someone mentioned this already, right?

And no joke about the "better days". Moldova was hundred times more well-off during USSR than it is right now. I have lived there enough to realise it. Everything in the country is a relic of that age, and it is all falling apart.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Also, the Moldovan communists are just a name, mainly designed to appeal to the nostalgic pensioners remembering the better days. Economist describes them as "centre right". I am pretty sure someone mentioned this already, right?

The Economist might, but there are a few things leading me to question their analysis. Firstly, they are part of the Party of the European Left, which is a fairly far-left association of parties. Secondly, though they may not be communist in the way that the Economist classifies it, calling them centre-right seems to be like calling Die Linke similar to the CSU.

[Aemilius Paulus]

It is not just Economist. I employed them since they make a decent appeal to authority, and because they are my favourite magazine, to which I happen to subscribe. I have lived in the country, as I have said, and I have observed their politics. They really are not communists. Believe me, it is just a name. Their government is in no way leftist, not even socialist. Everyone in the country knows that. Even the pensioners admit that, although I am not certain to what degree.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

I'm curious - do you classify Stalinists as communists/socialists/left-wing?

[Aemilius Paulus]

I'm curious - do you classify Stalinists as communists/socialists/left-wing?

Well, I think of the political spectrum as sort of a circle. Far right (Hitler) and far left (Stalin) had quite a bit of similarities. Then again, most of that was their authoritarianism, which has nothing to do with their political, left-right orientation. Officially, Stalinists are left wing, and it does reflect in their radical wealth distribution and government-ownership-of-everything practice.

Why is there a reason to believe the Stalinists are not left wing, or communists to be more precise?? Sure, their authoritarianism may not reflect Marx's views, but they are still left wing in their fiscal policies, which is the main part of communism. And communism is only unique in its economic aspects, not political (very few differences there).

[KarlXII]

Agree with SFTS. This whole thread is entertainment and just makes me continue to believe what I already do about Balkan politics.

[rasoforos]

This beats the normal talk we have about Western Europe. I like these fireworks, so much passion from you folks. Good show :popcorn:

That goes without saying...western Europe is boring.

In general, it is important to take things not too seriously, and to be willing to accept well placed alcohol bribes when the time is right.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Well, I think of the political spectrum as sort of a circle. Far right (Hitler) and far left (Stalin) had quite a bit of similarities. Then again, most of that was their authoritarianism, which has nothing to do with their political, left-right orientation. Officially, Stalinists are left wing, and it does reflect in their radical wealth distribution and government-ownership-of-everything practice.

Why is there a reason to believe the Stalinists are not left wing, or communists to be more precise?? Sure, their authoritarianism may not reflect Marx's views, but they are still left wing in their fiscal policies, which is the main part of communism. And communism is only unique in its economic aspects, not political (very few differences there).

[Sarmatian]

That goes without saying...western Europe is boring.

In general, it is important to take things not too seriously, and to be willing to accept well placed alcohol bribes when the time is right.

How can you accept foreign alcohol as a bribe when you have ouzo and metaxa right there? You call yourself Greek? You're a disgrace to... to... King Otto!

[rasoforos]

How can you accept foreign alcohol as a bribe when you have ouzo and metaxa right there? You call yourself Greek? You're a disgrace to... to... King Otto!

I am do decadent. Forsaking the ancient and glorious booze of my ancestors. But as we say, something foreign is always tastier.

[edyzmedieval]

Another characteristic of the East - one bribe and everything is forgotten.

[Cronos Impera]

Any bribe which I recieve must contain at least a bottle of Jaegermeister, two pints of Unicum, one gallon of wine and three tablespoons of golddust on top.

[Brenus]

"Another characteristic of the East - one bribe and everything is forgotten" UK is an Eastern Country?
Well, no, because all what the MPs are cashing is legal... They do nothing wrong...