Impressions of Faction balance.

[Slaists]

From what I have seen so far Prussia seems the big winner with these changes. They can blitz their hearts out and not sweat money for troops. (Prussia still starts with 8000 while everyone else has been cut to 7000)

In terms of AI controlled Prussia: I see them beaten to pulp by Austria and Poland in my latest campaign. Courland also reemerged and are besieging Konigsberg now.[/QUOTE]

They need not build a thing but troops and military buildings. It must be the easiest of all the factions to play.

So, where's the problem with that? Factions play out differently. Prussia suits one who wants to go the military route outright. There are different factions for different gameplays. And no, Prussia is not the easiest: the easiest is still Britain. I played a campaign with them to 1785, raking in 50,000 in turn profits from mid-game on, building up treasury surplus to 500,000 at which point I abandoned the campaign since no war could bother me given the cash cushion. Top that with the fact that Britain as a Constitutional Monarchy does not get industrial unrest. 1) I can have absolutely no garrison in any of my provinces (unless in a contested territory); 2) I can build 3 modern universities in England alone with the bonus of Royal Observatory and still no meaningful unrest...

I would say the game has now been tailored for this faction alone.

I could say that about Britain...

Great Brittan has lost a lot with the changes. It is not a powerhouse. It can barely hold on to what it has in the beginning and expansion is very slow. Troops are its biggest worry.

I utterly disagree. As stated above, Britain still seems the easiest of the factions to play. + they do not need too many troops anyway. Whole of North America can be taken over by 2 stacks featuring about half professional colonial soldiers + half auxiliaries (cheap). No army needed in Europe since the AI still does not do Naval invasions.

Austria looks like it has been redesigned to be Prussia whipping boy. It had more than enough problems before. It is iffy if it has the clout to hold out.

Austria is a very fun faction to play now.

What has been done to the town improvement is a shame! Most factions will be unable to improve beyond the second level of anything. Improving plantations must be handled carefully and it always results in diminishing returns.

Many regions are net money losers and where tax exempting them in the past would result in some increase now you are lucky if they rise to 0. Several still are loosing money with tax exempt status.

Developing towns (and plantations) was the key to building up that huge British cash surplus I mentioned above. Maybe in short game, upgrading does not make sense. It sure still does in the long campaign.

Also, take the pirate islands. The tax income at the start on those is miniscule. However, trade income boost from the plantation output is huge.

As to those losing regions: I find it quite realistic. Not all regions were worth holding on to for economic reasons. However, strategically, those losing regions can be quite handy.

Most of the minor powers have been nerffed so they are no longer a problem for major powers. Taking them is an easy way to increase your cash if you can afford troops in the first place. This is mostly another big win for Prussia.

I agree.

I have not tried Russia yet but I have noted that the Crimea seems to always fall on turn two in every campaign.

In my British campaign, Crimea took Kiev on their own. They still exist in 1785 despite Austrians having taken over most of the Ottoman territories (Crimea's allies). So, I guess, it plays out differently in different campaigns.

Unrest is now a minor irritant in home regions which takes little or no garrison to hold in check. The unrest in conquered regions appears to be stronger now but perhaps it is only due to the fact that troops are harder to come by.

Unrest in conquered regions just takes longer to subside now. And I find, it's quite realistic.

Techs and buildings no longer cause unrest. Just the school improvements do.

Techs and buildings actually still cause unrest. Only under constitutional monarchy they don't since that type of government does not have the lower class. I know, it's silly.

The game may have gotten very hard for some factions but if you cannot win with Prussia you had best leave the others alone anyway.

I find Ottomans to be a very fun campaign to play now.

[AussieGiant]

I certainly lean towards Slaists assessment of the last patch.

It's not meant to be easier, but harder. And essentially that has been what has happened.

[anweRU]

Techs and buildings actually still cause unrest. Only under constitutional monarchy they don't since that type of government does not have the lower class. I know, it's silly.

Actually, the enlightenment tech "clamor for reform" penalty has gone AWOL in this patch. It is still in the description, but not in the game!

I agree that trade factions will have it harder than before with this patch. GB at least is still relatively easy. I am currently on turn 32 or 33, and took 3 regions during the last turn and this turn (two in NA, one in India). I purposefully did not take a fourth one (Punjab), because I didn't way Persia to DoW on me... I guess I have been averaging 1 region/turn for the last 10 turns or so - though I number of those in NA were gifted to the 13 colonies to make them whole again... Can Prussia blitz with the same tempo on H/M (not having tried it...)?

Two full stacks, and two half stacks are sufficient to go on a rampage in two theaters, because the AI priorities are messed up. The AI recruits too many units and doesn't improve its economy - and it doesn't use them properly to add insult to its own injury. France has a larger navy than mine (one stack in NA alone has more ships than my total combat navy!), and has built decent garrisons in its colonial possessions. But that has broken its back - it can't even repair a damaged weaver's cottage in Flanders, it has been that way for at least 10 turns!

The Marathas looked like they might prove a challenge - but I can't find a single decent stack anywhere. It has garrisoned each and every single regional capital with 6 to 10 units, but its main army is AWOL. I think the Mughals wore them down. To be fair, the Mughals had a 16-17 unit stack which they were using first to recapture their regions from the Marathas - then trying to attack me (just destroyed it this morning).

[Slaists]

Actually, the enlightenment tech "clamor for reform" penalty has gone AWOL in this patch. It is still in the description, but not in the game!

I agree that trade factions will have it harder than before with this patch. GB at least is still relatively easy. I am currently on turn 32 or 33, and took 3 regions during the last turn and this turn (two in NA, one in India). I purposefully did not take a fourth one (Punjab), because I didn't way Persia to DoW on me... I guess I have been averaging 1 region/turn for the last 10 turns or so - though I number of those in NA were gifted to the 13 colonies to make them whole again... Can Prussia blitz with the same tempo on H/M (not having tried it...)?

Two full stacks, and two half stacks are sufficient to go on a rampage in two theaters, because the AI priorities are messed up. The AI recruits too many units and doesn't improve its economy - and it doesn't use them properly to add insult to its own injury. France has a larger navy than mine (one stack in NA alone has more ships than my total combat navy!), and has built decent garrisons in its colonial possessions. But that has broken its back - it can't even repair a damaged weaver's cottage in Flanders, it has been that way for at least 10 turns!

The Marathas looked like they might prove a challenge - but I can't find a single decent stack anywhere. It has garrisoned each and every single regional capital with 6 to 10 units, but its main army is AWOL. I think the Mughals wore them down. To be fair, the Mughals had a 16-17 unit stack which they were using first to recapture their regions from the Marathas - then trying to attack me (just destroyed it this morning).

Playing as Ottomans I seem to have plenty of 'clamour for reform'. I think, playing as British your initial ligne-up of ministers + the king give huge boost to canceling out the clamor. Several of them have the conservative trait.

It might be bugged though. I've read somewhere that constitutional monarchy is the only one that effectively cancels out clamor for reform (not the republic...). It might be, they messed up the entries and constitutional monarchy got what a republic was supposed to get (no clamor for reform).

Come to think of it: it would make sense.

- CM by design would get no industrial unrest but would have clamor for reform
- Republic by design would get no clamour for reform but would have industrial unrest
- AM would get both types of unrest, but the highest repression and the ability to tailor the cabinet to their liking at any point

The way it stands now Constitutional Monarchy does not get industrial unrest and, probably, does not get clamor for reform either. Seems like a bug.

[Fisherking]

The clamor for reform has not been there nor has it been listed on the techs for the factions I have played. Maybe some of the high level building have it but I have not been in a position to build them.

In the last few days I have tried out Prussia, Poland, Russia, Sweden, Spain, GB, Austria and a brief look at France. I won’t say it is taken out but I have not seen it.

The AI is still a blundering boob it just declares war now without being able to back up its claims. Major Powers are not much better than the Minors, they just have more land.

The AI does not seem as willing to swap regions as it was. I don’t know if that is all together good or bad.

Russia seems to play much like it did before the changes, and I guess that is good. But still the minors are not the powers they were so they don’t put up the furious fight they did.

I am not trying to be an expert on the topic.

These are impressions and not too in depth. I have kept the play brief deliberately.

From what I have seen the new trade system is just fine.

The building costs are much too high for some factions, as are the recruitment and upkeep costs.

For other factions they are about right or even a little low. (troop costs)

The challenge of keeping a government type from start to finish is gone from what I see, and I miss the challenge.

Many of the regions have also had their value cut. Some of these need to be looked at.

I am unclear on the tax penalties. I noticed them big time with GB but hardly at all with most of the others.

Spain seems the big looser and it was a struggle before. It can not stand up to the Pirates or even the minor powers. It needed to avoid war before, and that was difficult owing to its weakness. Not… well the AI is more aggressive and Spain has on troops. It seem to me it needs help.

I will still try to get to some others if I have time.

[anweRU]

The clamor for reform has not been there nor has it been listed on the techs for the factions I have played. Maybe some of the high level building have it but I have not been in a position to build them.

Keep in mind, clamor for reform affects only regions with schools.

The -1 clamor for reform penalty is still listed in the descriptions of the 2nd and higher level enlightenment technologies. That is as it was pre-patch.

What is missing post-patch for GB is the actual clamor for reform when you research the techs. I used to get it as advertised in my pre-1.2 games. The fact that it is displayed in the description, but not present in the game suggest a snafu in the patch (or something due to my ministers as Slaists wrote above - I'll check it tonight).

The only clamor I get at the moment is the one due to the presence of the school itself...

[Slaists]

Keep in mind, clamor for reform affects only regions with schools.

The -1 clamor for reform penalty is still listed in the descriptions of the 2nd and higher level enlightenment technologies. That is as it was pre-patch.

What is missing post-patch for GB is the actual clamor for reform when you research the techs. I used to get it as advertised in my pre-1.2 games. The fact that it is displayed in the description, but not present in the game suggest a snafu in the patch (or something due to my ministers as Slaists wrote above - I'll check it tonight).

The only clamor I get at the moment is the one due to the presence of the school itself...

Yes, I agree. I double checked my British campaign: and I actually had clamor for reform but only in cities with universities. None whatsoever in any other province despite the enlightenment techs promising such clamor.

As to Britain: I had two modern universities in England and the clamor for reform was still minimal. Something seems broken with constitutional monarchy.

[Fisherking]

Keep in mind, clamor for reform affects only regions with schools.

The -1 clamor for reform penalty is still listed in the descriptions of the 2nd and higher level enlightenment technologies. That is as it was pre-patch.

What is missing post-patch for GB is the actual clamor for reform when you research the techs. I used to get it as advertised in my pre-1.2 games. The fact that it is displayed in the description, but not present in the game suggest a snafu in the patch (or something due to my ministers as Slaists wrote above - I'll check it tonight).

The only clamor I get at the moment is the one due to the presence of the school itself...

Indeed you are right!

I would have sworn that it was also missing from the tech card.

The clamor doesn’t seem to be as bad and it is also missing from building. At least all that I have built.

[antisocialmunky]

So the best research farms are located in big provinces with equal parts booze and schools. That's cool :).

[nafod]

@Fisherking

As prepatch I focused primarily on the Ottomans, Russia, and Prussia, I wouldn't know how much they nerfed the tradeing.

However I did start a French GC H/N the day before patch and was chugging along almost unstoppable. I had 4/5 Sugar trade spots, 9/10 Ivory tradespots, and 2/5 Spice tradespots.

I restarted post patch and was only able to capture 3/5 sugar tradespots, 3/10 Ivory tradespots, and 3/5 Spice tradespots employing the same strategy (so the AI is better at grabbing them). Granted in neither case did I employ a "balls to the wall" East Indiamen produced everywhere strategy, nor did I use existing naval units to "hold" tradespots. I merely built 3 every other turn and sent them out. I did noticed very quickly the decline in trade and think it serves the nations I played pre-patch as trade is so little of what they do. My French campaign post-patch is continueing just fine with 22k income around 1750.

Prussia in particular was a monster pre-patch and will continue to be one post patch.

I support you in the effort to make all nations (e.g. Spain) viable with a multitude of strategies, but ask that we stop short of trying to "balance" all the starting positions as this seems a bit goofy in a single player strategy game.

As England was unable to be invaded pre-patch, and I'd wager highly unlikely to be so post patch; I take most comments about the uber achievements players have made with this nation with a grain of salt.

In particular I feel the Colonial "missions" in North America are a bit goofy to begin with. And France and Spain seemed to have drawn the short straw on this.

Also I didn't notice that the AI doesn't trade territories anymore until you mentioned it, but my French game has not seen a single offer.

Cheers,

Naf