Impressions of Faction balance.

[nafod]

@Fisherking

As prepatch I focused primarily on the Ottomans, Russia, and Prussia, I wouldn't know how much they nerfed the tradeing.

However I did start a French GC H/N the day before patch and was chugging along almost unstoppable. I had 4/5 Sugar trade spots, 9/10 Ivory tradespots, and 2/5 Spice tradespots.

I restarted post patch and was only able to capture 3/5 sugar tradespots, 3/10 Ivory tradespots, and 3/5 Spice tradespots employing the same strategy (so the AI is better at grabbing them). Granted in neither case did I employ a "balls to the wall" East Indiamen produced everywhere strategy, nor did I use existing naval units to "hold" tradespots. I merely built 3 every other turn and sent them out. I did noticed very quickly the decline in trade and think it serves the nations I played pre-patch as trade is so little of what they do. My French campaign post-patch is continueing just fine with 22k income around 1750.

Prussia in particular was a monster pre-patch and will continue to be one post patch.

I support you in the effort to make all nations (e.g. Spain) viable with a multitude of strategies, but ask that we stop short of trying to "balance" all the starting positions as this seems a bit goofy in a single player strategy game.

As England was unable to be invaded pre-patch, and I'd wager highly unlikely to be so post patch; I take most comments about the uber achievements players have made with this nation with a grain of salt.

In particular I feel the Colonial "missions" in North America are a bit goofy to begin with. And France and Spain seemed to have drawn the short straw on this.

Also I didn't notice that the AI doesn't trade territories anymore until you mentioned it, but my French game has not seen a single offer.

Cheers,

Naf

[anweRU]

As England was unable to be invaded pre-patch, and I'd wager highly unlikely to be so post patch; I take most comments about the uber achievements players have made with this nation with a grain of salt.

No need to take it with a grain of salt. Save games can be provided... However, you have a good point. If the AI actually conducted invasions, then I would need to build up my units in Britain. I currently have only several dragoons and a single general in the British islands.

Holland shouldn't have a big problem. It needs to hold only two European regions. Others would be hard pressed.

Which is why I asked "Can Prussia blitz with the same tempo on H/M?" I doubt it. GB is still a very easy faction. Fisherking has the opposite idea, as is obvious from his posts.

[nafod]

No need to take it with a grain of salt. Save games can be provided... However, you have a good point. If the AI actually conducted invasions, then I would need to build up my units in Britain. I currently have only several dragoons and a single general in the British islands.

Holland shouldn't have a big problem. It needs to hold only two European regions. Others would be hard pressed.

Which is why I asked "Can Prussia blitz with the same tempo on H/M?" I doubt it. GB is still a very easy faction. Fisherking has the opposite idea, as is obvious from his posts.

@anweRU


2 things:

I only consern myself with the world domination or prestige campaigns. I find the short/long goals a bit gamey. I don;t mean to dis those that play these, only I do not, thus my comments do not apply in these cases.

Additionally you mentioned your father was a US Sub Skipper. Could you ask, assuming you do not know, why the stretch of US Interstate 70 from Columbia Missouri to Kansas City Missouri is dubbed the "US Submarine Veterans Memorial Highway?" This has puzzled me for five years.

[anweRU]

My father was a Turkish submarine skipper. You probably have/ had a big group of submarine veterans in the area.

My GB campaigns have been prestige campaigns - which invariably become world domination campaigns. I need to eliminate my competition after all. In my pre-patch GB H game, I had 55 regions on turn 71 and a prestige rank of 2451 (883 being the second ranked nation). I switched to a Dutch H, then to a Swedish VH campaign. Current game has 19 regions on turn 31, with a prestige rank of342 vs 223 of Poland, the second. Early on Prussia and the Marathas had higher prestige ranking than I...

Pre-patch Swedish VH short campaign had 37 regions held at turn 101, when the game ended. That was my most peaceful campaign. And the one I enjoyed the most incidentally. The pre-patch Dutch campaign had 43 regions (including most of India, NA, and the Baltic) on turn 70. I abandoned it due to a CTD issue.

Post-patch I haven't had an opportunity to play anything other than the GB campaign, and look at how the patch affected my VH French campaign which was two days old when the patch hit.

Most of the time I can only play about an hour a day, either before going to work or after coming home. Need to spend time with a minor distraction known as family (the four legged children are more demanding than my girlfriend)... Hence my ignorance of what Prussia can accomplish.

[Fisherking]

I have played roughly between 20 and 40 turns post patch of all the major factions except the Dutch.

I will get to them but have not had the time. To me they were the easiest faction I had played pre-patch.

Post patch the number one hands down easiest is Prussia, fallowed second by Poland. The third easiest are the Marathas Confederacy who have an easy time in India so long as European troops don’t show up.

These are as you see only early game impressions. As you get into the mid game it should get a bit easier, I would think.

The hardest faction is Spain, fallowed by the Ottoman Empire. With Spain I found I had little hope of even surviving. With no other faction did I feel so hopeless or helpless. With the Turks I was able to take two regions while trying to build up the weak economy. I didn’t get the economy running in any grand way but it gave me enough for cheap troops.

The way I played it Austria seemed very weak also with everyone going to war with you it makes it a very close call between them and the Turks, they may be a bit harder actually.

The rest fall into a middle ground where they are not in danger of being eliminated but the road to victory could prove long and hard.

I know that some of you think England is easy but just try to meet your victory conditions in under 10 years. Prussia, Poland, and the Marathas should all be able to accomplish their required regions in that amount of time and Prussia can get all the regions they need for the Prestige game in that amount of time. Prussia also had the fastest research in all fields of any of the factions. It needs some work to make it a bit more of a challenge.

This is not the Prussia of history, that much is for sure. They are in no danger of being rescued when the Tsar decides they should live and they need not worry about a great French army subjugating them. It is much more like an unstoppable Third Reich sort of military machine rolling across Europe.

[JeromeBaker]

Fisherking, I am playing as Sweden now in my first post patch game which you mentioned was close to Prussia as being easiest of the factions. I am making it decently fine and having lots of fun with the challenge. What happens if you play the other factions on an easier setting, like M/M. Are they still hard to get going then? I was going to start an Austria campaign next and I usually play VH/H, but might start M/H or something like that. I guess another way to phrase the question is, how much easier is the economy to build on M/M than VH/H? This might be on another thread, so sorry if that is the case.

[AussieGiant]

I admire you tenacity Fisherking, but now JeromeBaker has asked his question you now have the dilemma of play all of them again at varying difficulties...

[Fisherking]

Fisherking, I am playing as Sweden now in my first post patch game which you mentioned was close to Prussia as being easiest of the factions. I am making it decently fine and having lots of fun with the challenge. What happens if you play the other factions on an easier setting, like M/M. Are they still hard to get going then? I was going to start an Austria campaign next and I usually play VH/H, but might start M/H or something like that. I guess another way to phrase the question is, how much easier is the economy to build on M/M than VH/H? This might be on another thread, so sorry if that is the case.

As the game is currently set, you will find that the difficulty levels show up only on the battle map.

If there are any differences on the campaign map I haven’t noticed them.

The campaign difficulty only seems to effect the generalship on the battle map and the battle difficulties give bonuses to the enemy troops. I wouldn’t even swear that the generalship is much better…but the bonuses are real enough.

Diplomatically and economically I find no differences. The easy AI is just as belligerent and stupid as it is on very hard. The regions are just as poor and trade values and building costs are the same. At least at the start of the campaign troop upkeep is all the same.

Each campaign is randomized a bit, most noticeable in ministers but I suspect it gives factions slightly different personalities.

If anyone else sees any, then please point them out.

[Ordani]

Also I didn't notice that the AI doesn't trade territories anymore until you mentioned it, but my French game has not seen a single offer.

It still does, just with nowhere near the frequency; possibly as a consequence of the different monetary values floating around, it may not reach positive outcomes as often. In particular you can still offer ridiculous sums for territory, as well as demand it for peace.

re: Britain, still by far the easiest; Holland is also pretty damn easy simply because you incur no "territorial expansion" as you don't need (nor want) to expand in Europe at all (and the New Spain "exploit" lets you claim your one European goal early on without France intervening.).

Spain isn't too bad if you take a long view, but if you play it straight and don't spend a few turns sacking the King, etc, it's probably the weakest European power. The Ottomans are probably the only faction I'd rate "hard" in that you have an uphill climb no matter how you do it.