A question about Carthage

[Zarax]

I've read that Carthage had a practice to forbid subject cities from building walls, especially in Africa.

Is that accurate?
If so, would it be proper to disable or limit the building of walls in african settlements for Carthage?

Thanks for your answers!

[/Bean\]

Roleplay it...just don't build walls.

[Zarax]

Well, I'm considering it from a modding side rather than a player's one.
In XGM-XC we're trying to represent each culture's aspect more in depth and this could be one of the unique sides of Carthage

[soup_alex]

In this case, the simplest solution is unfortunately not the right one. Well, it works beautifully if the human player is controlling SSbQ, but how to stop the pesky AI?

Would it be possible to edit faction build trees and prohibit construction of walls and upgrades in provinces that don't include a type I (or II) gov't "building"?


As to the historical veracity of this practice (walls being restricted, not modding RTW/EB :P), I can't comment, but would like to hear more about it.

[Zarax]

Well, that wouldn't be a problem to do... It's just the historical accuracy that gives me doubts

[Jebivjetar]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Carthage, situated in Africa on the southern shore of the Mediterranean about midway between its two extremes, grew rapidly in wealth and fame. As the cities of native Phoenicia crumbled beneath the repeated assaults of Assyrians, Babylonians, and Greeks, Carthage, secure in her distance and solitude, rose to be the chief trading-city of the world. By deg, though the details are lost to us, she became mistress of all north Africa west of Egypt. The other Phoenician colonies became her subjects; their walls were torn down and they were made incapable of resistance. The merchant princes of Carthage were as cruel, as merciless, as they were powerful. Their fields were tilled by slaves in chains, sometimes one merchant held twenty thousand of the joyless wretches in this miserable bondage.

From:

http://www.publicbookshelf.com/publi...storya_ji.html

Maybe this will help :-/

[Zarax]

that's what I read more or less... What I'm asking is how accurate is that

[Jebivjetar]

that's what I read more or less... What I'm asking is how accurate is that

Well, i would say it is pretty accurate, because this article is written by scholars

[Krusader]

Well, i would say it is pretty accurate, because this article is written by scholars

Generally yes, but its 1913 where more obscure cultures and factions were being researched upon, as Carthage, Baktria, Indo-Greeks etc.

Then you do have scholars who say ancient Greeks were blacks and Parthians were Jewish

But in this case, I do think its accurate enough, but if we will represent it in EB2, not sure.

[Zarax]

Interesting... that could give XGM-XC some uniqueness... Thanks Krusader!

[Jebivjetar]

Yes, thanks, Krusader.

[Tanit]

Hmm, not sure about that. The Phoenician cities in Sicily and Iberia kept their walls for sure. Utica kept its wall for sure. The Carthaginians had a series of border forts along their borders in interior Africa. Not having walls doesn't seem logical for them.

[Zarax]

My idea was to allow wooden walls everywhere but to take out stone walls from towns outside Carthage in Africa... would that be a better implementation?

[Ludens]

It sounds more like a propaganda piece really, so I too am sceptical. And even if it was true, there most likely would have been exceptions if the Carthaginians felt they needed to defend their new subjects against other enemies. Destroyed cities don't bring in money, after all.

[Zarax]

Hmm, representing the thalassocratic aspects is proving harder than I thought then...

[Tanit]

What you could do is have the level of wall reliant upon the level of barracks as well. Logically the more military focus is placed upon a region, the more a need for defensive architecture arises. In the same way the best way to discourage military uprising if your military is also limited in the region is to deny the local populace the construction of such architecture. Just a thought.

[Zarax]

That's a pretty smart idea Tanit, do you think it could be generalized faction-wide or just for african settlements?

[Tanit]

Could probably be generalized.

[Atraphoenix]

but that means SSBQ is an easy prey for others.... AI has no respect for history sorry pal...
think about Sparta they boasted having no walls do we need to lock sparta building walls?

[Zarax]

I'm not requesting this feature for EB but as historical question for my own modding purposes, after all implementation is a matter of taste...

[Ludens]

think about Sparta they boasted having no walls do we need to lock sparta building walls?

I am pretty sure they either had walls at the start of EB's time frame, or would acquire them shortly after. Sparta wasn't the power it used to be, after all.

[Atraphoenix]

I'm not requesting this feature for EB but as historical question for my own modding purposes, after all implementation is a matter of taste...

I have more mods than 5 for EB but just released 3 of them...
modding is fun and of course if you know how to mod. Even I had a script for 12 turn per year but it would take more than 8k turn so I found it is not so much necassary
if you know how to handle and mod EDB it is easy to mod it the hard one modelling, campaign map modding etc if you are not a genius of photoshop..

[Zarax]

Well, I'm not gonna mod EB but another project, XGM-XC.

[Atraphoenix]

just a curiosity, were Diadochi Totar War creators once in XGM team, they have lots of similarities.
Both mods' campaign map nearly same....

[Zarax]

Yes, DTW started as XGM Diadochii, there are still some traces of its origin (from 3.x times) but it's pretty much almost a completely new ptoject...

XGM-XC is based off XGM 5.x but it's starting to split up as in independent project.
Right now I'm taking care of historical accuracy (although not on EB level) and BI/senate features development and that's why I pop here asking weird questions around...

[Atraphoenix]

You made me remind my first days as an independent submodder. I was doing exactly the same you do now.



P.S. I should be the first one to congratulate, you hit 1.000.

[Zarax]

Only I'm doing this as full team member over there.
Only DimeBagHo (of course as founder) can claim to have spent more time working on the XGM series than me...

[Atraphoenix]

I am happy to stay as an independent submodder, I am sure I cannot make a better mod then the ones in presence. But I am happy that people still make the RTW Mods alive with their releases. 6-8 years ? passed since RTW released. I was in the first year in the Univ. When I become an addict to this game.
I hope CA will see this and make a R2TW or a patch for fans to improve the mods.
but I must confess that I lost my belief in miracles....

[Zarax]

Well, nothing forbids you to join a smaller mod and imprint your creative spin on it... That's what I did with BI-XGM years ago and what I'm still doing with BI/Senate for XC now...
My biggest hope is to have an unified BI/ALX patch, would be great...

[Atraphoenix]

As you can see in my sig. I had made enough of them already. Most submodders like me waits for EB2 to (sub)mod it .
I will make a provincial camp. after my exam in July. I am under the pressure of real life issues at the moment.