Barbarian Goods and Bads! everybody welcome!!!

[Duguntz]

So, In my last thread, I talked about my bad time (still bad! but at least stable!) with those tin can of Romans (I'm playing Sweboz) Then I received an interesting post that gave me the idea for this thread, who said that Sweboz was underpowered in comparaison to other barbarians. I don't know if a thread like that is to be found yet, so I take the risk to open it (or just bother by starting it for a 15'th time!)

BARBARIAN COMPARAISON... good and bad, better or worse. I think that Sweboz are effectivly in disadventage in face of, let say, Romans, or even Gauls, who get their first reform really soon... (I mean, their solduros are as strong as my body guard!!!) and Another thing is that Sweboz get their reform (yet historically accurate) , real far in the game (when you have to face stronger opponents in permanance, forcing us to do, in most case, war of attrition, raiding when we have the chance, etc...)... Still, i trien both gauls, the getai, the casse... I don't refind that wild side anywhere else than with the Sewboz, so, I cope with those disadventages, and I keep striking defensless town (that the honorific part!) Keeping no prisoners when I'm really pissed off at the guy in front (that's the noble part!) and just like to imagine the sacking then! (that's the polite part!)

Wich are your favourite barbarians and why...

[Maion Maroneios]

The Hellen in me screams that I should say Barbaroi are Barbaroi. Filthy, smelly, uncivilised. The worse of the worse. But on a serious note, I don't really think the Suebi are underpowered. They are just (and I guess historically were) more "primitive" than the rest of the factions, meaning they have a more "primitive" (almost naked?) style of combat. Plus, from what I've learned playing the Sweboz for a while, they didn't have easy access to materials like iron, preferring spears and clubs for their heavier dependance of wood (which was rather plentiful that time, they didn't wipe their arses with consentrated tree substance that time ).

As for which "barbarian" faction I believe is the best, or better the coolest, I would have to vote for the Lusotannan. They have cool units, and have great potential. Their excellent armour and guerilla tactics, as well as a possibility of more Roman-like "manipular" formations, make their armies quite impressive on the battlefield.

Maion

[athanaric]

Which are your favourite barbarians and why...

Swêboz. I like their units most, for design reasons as well as for the badass factor (not to forget their funny names). OTOH, their economy is just pathetic, which makes a Swêboz campaign tougher as times proceed and the "civilized" competition, especially those nasty Romans, becomes increasingly capable of outproducing you.
Casse are cool, too. Although it is a pity that chariots become unavailable with the second reform.

Basically, if you want lots of spearmen (every "native" Germanic unit except for the Druxtiz Basterniska carries either a spear or javelins or both!), AP and frightening units, Swêboz are ideal for you.
If you want to have the best selection of swordsmen in the game plus a decent economy (paved roads etc.), play Aedui or Arverni.
If you want to play hide and seek on the battlefield, the Lusotannan are first choice (with Swêboz and Getai being second). Have fun with your cavalry hiding in long grass. Plus, every Iberian unit except for slingers and melee cavalry carries javelins.
If you want a really diverse unit roster, play Getai.
If you want to go "crazy", play Casse.

[Duguntz]

The sweboz aren't underpowered in overall, but it is a fact that they are at a disadventage at every levels before their reform! It's a challange and make it fun though, to fight legion with almost naked guys! and I like to imagine the face of the roman in front of such a fight! The Romans were indeed, scared of gauls for that reason. The problem, is that the early Gauls and Germans were indeed HUGE and muscular men, most of them, and their shield were too narow to offer good protection against the javelins of the velites and the pilae of the Romans... Argh... sorry, when i start to talk about history, I can't stop! Back to the topic!!!

why I think Sweboz are rally nice to play? I just love seeing the mighty legions being routed by naked men!, surprise attack, fear effect, yeah, those are a real pleasure to play, and even more to role-play!!!

[DaciaJC]

Getai are my favorite. The kings of shock infantry, I refer to them. Drapanai, Rhomphaiaphoroi, Traikioi Peltastai... heh.

A diverse unit roster (already mentioned) and a close proximity to the drowning-in-money Hellenes mean the Getai can experience much of both the military and economic worlds.

[Tristuskhan]

Getai are my favorite. The kings of shock infantry, I refer to them. Drapanai, Rhomphaiaphoroi, Traikioi Peltastai... heh.

A diverse unit roster (already mentioned) and a close proximity to the drowning-in-money Hellenes mean the Getai can experience much of both the military and economic worlds.

Very true, they also have easy access to Cordinau Orca, an outstanding heavy infantry, plus elite archers (scythians) and good enough horse archers (scythian riders), making one of the most versatile roaster in the game.

In spite of all those qualities, I got my a** handed to me when I met Pahlava in Tarsos during my getai campaign...

[Duguntz]

The only problem with the getai, (i think ,I'm no getai expert) is that, although good front line infantry, they rely a lot on skirmishing unit (i must admit that their heavy peltast are great!) wich is usedul against less moblie force, like Mak pikemen and Hellen phalanx, but rather fare poorly against other shock infantry, especially with AP attribute.

the two nicier ''pool'' of units still belong to Getai, and Lusotann. Ha, but nothin's comparable to those fantastic (and unfortunatly only mercenary) German Worgozez... Is there any way to recruit those wild wolf-men? Anyway, I agree with you, Frontline1944 (are you born on a 6 june? t'would be in accordance with your name! ) that Geati can be a great experiance of barbarians tactic and decent economy at the same time...

Still, I hope I'm not the only one here to find that wild side of the swebos attractive!

[bobbin]

The Sweboz can get massive XP boosts from their buildings (something like 3 or 4 chevs) which make up for the lack of armour early on, also if your willing to take on one of those horrendous rebel stacks in central europe and capture the province you get access to the Boii Cingetos, excellent troops who are essentially celtic legionnares.

As for favourite barbaroi faction I'd say the Lusotanna and they really do have an amazing unit roster(possibly best of all the factions), the only niggle being that it is all confined in or near iberia, unlike the celts who can get good troops practically everywhere.

[athanaric]

the two nicier ''pool'' of units still belong to Getai, and Lusotann. Ha, but nothin's comparable to those fantastic (and unfortunatly only mercenary) German Worgozez... Is there any way to recruit those wild wolf-men?

I'm afraid there isn't, unless you mod them to be recruitable. After all, they really aren't regular troops...

[satalexton]

The Romaioi. I can never get tired of shacking their capital Barbaropolis. Subsequently I occasionally Roleplay a romani campaign which consist of Barbarpolis getting burned to the ground by mighty Makedonia.

[Fluvius Camillus]

Ah another fine joke of Satalexton which we've never heard...

I have not played a barbarian faction yet, although I want to in the future, this thread is a nice one for picking the best choice for me.

What do the Sweboz reforms grant exactly?

I guess these guys, correct me if I'm wrong though..

Thegnoz Drugule (Germanic Heavy Infantry) and Marhathegnoz (Germanic Heavy Cavalry)?


~Fluvius

[satalexton]

You gotta think like an ork (from WH40k) when playing the sweboz. And yes, the "more choppy and 'arder skin" reforms are much much needed during middle to late game as the skins of 'umies are simply not as resilant as that of the real boyz....

However, tacticz are essentially the same, u gather up some nobs, subdue a few mobs, bring 'em together....and WAAAGH!!!!!!!!

[Cadwalader]

I'll have to say the Sweboz. I just love building up my little forest kingdom, Gawjam after Gawjam. Also, they are my "ancestors" culturally, maybe even genetically. Therefore, I feel I can relate to them in a way. I also like the Casse. I'm a sucker for isolated factions with lots of room for "tribal warfare", it seems.

[Andronikos]

From barbarian factions - definitely Gauls, good balance between being barbarian and civilised, many units, various enemies to fight with. I like Aedui a little more than Arverni.
Casse and Sweboz are nice too. I don't know why, but Lusotannans and Getai have never interested me much.

(Fluvius: prehaps the reform gives Sweboz that armored guys with huge spears = Speutagardaz too, but I'm not sure, haven't played Sweboz after getting new units in 1.x, but I will as soon as RL and unfinished campaigns permit )

[Ibrahim]

barbarians? as in gauls, germanics, getics, and britons, and so on?

well, in this case, the advantages are that they are mobile, hit hard, and are dirt cheap. of all of them, I most love the Arverni, especially they're elites.

disadvantage: they aren't arab-'nuff said

[Cute Wolf]

Casse..... Their 2 handed swordsmen, and Hammermen will chomp those Romans (or Epeirotes) very good..... (only Thracian Rhomphaia elite is better than them...)

[Duguntz]

Well, I must take back what I said about sweboz : Basicly, their units is truly backward in comparaison of let's say, Solduros or Legionary, but, as pointed out earlier, lvl 3 temple of Deiwoz makes you train unit with gold chevron at base. Basicly, that kick a..es of many dudes, armor or no! So even if they're nude, they fight against tank and win!!!

EVERYBODY HEIL FOR THE HERJANN!!!

[Cute Wolf]

And you know what's doom for those naked men?

A simple archer / slinger

BTW, they are still better than Getai anyway, especially when AI use them...

[Duguntz]

That's so true! one single sligner with a bit of experience could make those naked speramen to rout! lol! what is a sligner for a naked man? a catapult for a tent! i can imagine an army of those defeating a roman legion and the day after comming back to the camp, decimated...

General : What happened, I tought you crushed the legion yesterday. EXPLAIN YOURSELF CAPTAIN

Cap. : Euh, my lord, how could we stand against those devils, they had at least 10, maybe even 15 archers it huuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrts!!!

[Cute Wolf]

simple:
Chevrons didn't improve armour, they do improve attack, and MELEE defence...

so your story will be true...

Celtic slingers and some (even unchevroned) celtic shortswordsmen will make a short work against tons of 9 chevroned wothiz watha!

(The only naked unit that is impervious to missile is Gaesatae!)

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

I would rather be a barbarian. The privilege of taking individual baths in a Celtic house with decent soap is by far better than doing it in public with olive oil, as the Romani and Hellenes did. Maybe it's just me.

And remember the strenght of the Sweboz lies in their line units, which are far better than the Celtic ones.

[Duguntz]

Simple strategy... I place my gen. in front of the other (when against archer) so they aborb most of the arows, and then the wotiz proves to themself how big is their b....ls and rush in the melee... (trying not to give themself to the javelin...) playing sweboz, you must place yourself the CLOSEST as possible frm the ennemy, no time for that skirmishing stuff... not when your men are nude!

And it's quiet realistic for the short swrd men... I mean, a long swrrd, you see it from far and block it with a lil skill... but a shortswrd is fast under the shield and cutting the ... well, i'll stop there it's hurt too much!

[athanaric]

And remember the strenght of the Sweboz lies in their line units, which are far better than the Celtic ones.

Good point. The Celtic factions, although they have some very nice elites, don't really have good spearmen that can be entrusted with holding the main line. Gaeroas are more skirmishers and flankers than lineholders; Uirodosios have high morale but no armour, which is an obvious detriment. Dugunthiz and, even more so, their regional counterparts or the Speudogordoz, are better for such a job.

[Duguntz]

that's a good point, true, but celtic also have (maybe only one) but also good line holder and it's the Caturidge (wich, even as Sweboz, I'm using extensively with their charge 10) and they even (rarely but still) gave a bad time to my duguntiz and duguntiz xatiska... Still, in comparaison, Sweboz got better lineholder, but no elite at all... so when we're confronted to such a foe who like to line up elites after elites, we have no choice than to compensate with number and as much impressive units (''fear'') as we can... I remarked (I know, I remarked late) but fear is actually not to be underestimated... since I use it more, I got twice less problem with much more heavy armed opponent, and after the rout, it's the massacre !!! NO MERCY!

[ziegenpeter]

Swêboz. I like their units most, for design reasons as well as for the badass factor (not to forget their funny names).

What in your opinion gives their name a notion of comic?

[Gabeed]

When it comes to barbarians, I'm a Casse man. Chariots ftw.

[Maion Maroneios]

I would rather be a barbarian. The privilege of taking individual baths in a Celtic house with decent soap is by far better than doing it in public with olive oil, as the Romani and Hellenes did. Maybe it's just me.

And remember the strenght of the Sweboz lies in their line units, which are far better than the Celtic ones.

I'm afraid you're wrong here. Soaps were in a very primitive form, made from fat and salts. Mostly fat, that is. It probably smelled bad too, or not at all. Plus, it would have been bad for your skin. Soaps that are actually good for you, now those haven't been around since about 100 years if I'm not mistaken.

The Hellenes used olive oil when excercising. It's wrong to say they used it in their everyday lives. Oil is not something you want rubbed on your skin all day, believe me. And the only way to effeciently get it off of you is with a good bath and soap. I know it for one Don't ask me why I did it though

Hellenes and Romaioi had baths and saunas (steam baths). They had scented oils, and various perfumes as well. They also had many plant-based incredients that they used on their skins for various reasons, including body health. So I hope this whole "Celts were much cleaner than Romans and Hellenes because they used bloody soap instead of olive oil" thing dies out, because honestly its kind of becoming stupid and annoying to hear. Just like the Hellenes being gay, or Megals Alexandros being a FYROMian. OK maybe not that bad, but you get my point.

Maion

[ziegenpeter]

Ahh nevertheless. Once the oil is on your skin you have to rubb sand on it and then scratch it off. Nothing I would like to do.

[athanaric]

What in your opinion gives their name a notion of comic?

"Funny" as in "strange".

[ziegenpeter]

"Funny" as in "strange".

Assuming your sig, your danish and you speak german. So their names should be the least strange to you...?
Guessing that skudjunez means "Schütze" in german is much easier (for me) than guessing the meaning of "Ayrudzi Netadzik" (Armenian Horse-Archers)