What if?

[Brenus]

Well, the thing is that future USA was only the 13 colonies... Most of the territory was the French Louisiana, the one that Napoleon sold...
So if these 13 colonies stayed English, nothing can tell that all the rest of the continent will become English.
Do you think that waves of immigrants would have happened in a English or French territories?

[Centurion1]

Actually there WOULD have been immigration in the colonies. Unlike other major powers the British were very happy to send there troublemakers over to the colonies (for example the puritans), well this may have been a mistake they gave them a very impressive population boom in early colonies. Also because of the proclamation of 1763 the further influence of the English in America was severely limited. The proclamation did not allow for colonization past the Appalachians, while this may seem stupid in theory it was actually because the white settlers would most likely have been massacred by the Indians after the French and Indian war (7 years war for you Europeans) but this was never intended as a permanent measure so who really knows.

[Brenus]

Yes, it would have some immigration but not in the same space, under the same owners.
California became US long time after and would be Spanish, and Texas too. The French Louisiana wasn’t the actual Louisiana but a far bigger piece of land.
So in case of English Victory against the Unlawful combatants, the map that will design the future USA would have been different. No going west would be possible under one state rules…

[Centurion1]

I think that the topic is very hard to really comprehend. We can speculate but we can never really know what would have happened. Of course the British could have gained Spanish Louisiana as a result of winning the war in America (Americas revolution was a WORLD WAR at the end with almost every nation in Europe choosing sides, THIS is why America won not through their superior fighting prowess). Plus California was Spanish but then was passed over to Mexicans when the Spanish withdrew from their colonies. It was not added to the US until the Mexican war in 1848. The same goes for Texas. So i believe that it still would have happened because we white people HAVE to trounce on primitive natives, (we can't help it its a natural instinct) in that line of reasoning we of course could not have allowed the plains Indians autonomy. So yes, it may have taken longer but i believe that eventually would have happened. The geographical necessity of the act is required.

[King Henry V]

Well, the thing is that future USA was only the 13 colonies... Most of the territory was the French Louisiana, the one that Napoleon sold...
So if these 13 colonies stayed English, nothing can tell that all the rest of the continent will become English.
Do you think that waves of immigrants would have happened in a English or French territories?

Actually, no, it wasn't. French Louisiana was from 1763 until 1800 actually Spanish Louisiana, until the Spaniards agreed to return it control of it to Bonaparte, who then sold it to America for a fair bit of cash. If France didn't win back Louisiana by victory in the American war, then I don't see how it would have go it through defeat.

I remember reading a while back an alternative history novel called the Two Georges, where the rebels are defeated but nevertheless treated with mercy, and a compromise gives a limited amount of autonomy to the Colonies. The North American Union, as it known, expands westwards, the Red Indian tribes becoming semi-autonomous princely states like the Maharajahs of India, and conquering the rest of real life American territory from the Franco-Spanish Holy Alliance (the French Revolution never having occurred, the two countries form some sort of permanent Bourbon compact).

[Centurion1]

By taking what you had in your book, which i actually want to read right now i can disagree i think the fate of the Indians were settled in 1492 when Columbus discovered America. They were simply not allowed the chance to truly develop by Europeans. They were constantly shuffled further or further west even if they were civilized like the Cherokee (see trail of tears and the five civilized tribes).
As to the french revolution never happening i can see this as happening. There is in my mind at least a significant possibility that the french never would have rebelled had the American experiment never been formed. Then again who knows those who the french drew most heavily from (Locke) never really had experience or exposure to America. I think that this is where the fun lies in alternate history it allows the author to ask the question on everyone's mind, what if? An author i recommend for this form of writing would have to be Harry Turtledove a true master of literature if you ask me.

[Ariovistus Maximus]

Also when considering the effects of an American defeat in the late 1700's we must consider the repercussions in France. The American Revolution sort of pulled the cork out of the bottle for a number of other nations, including the French Revolution.

As with the U.S., the French would have done it eventually, but I would think that the American Revolution was a catalyst for the French.

On the other hand, if the Americans had been defeated, the British would have gone after the French who had sent troops to help the U.S., and maybe the French monarch would have crumbled even sooner, due to British pressure...

[Conradus]

On the other hand, if France hadn't helped the colonials, its finances might be in a better state so one of the reasons for the revolution falls away, or lessens severely.

And even if Britain went after France, which they couldn't really do, not on land anyway, they would never allow a republic to be set up, and soon help the royalists out rather than the revolutionaries.

[Ariovistus Maximus]

Actually what I meant was if France had helped and we lost then the Brits might have gone after them.

But very good insight! Yeah, the British would have had some things to say about the republic that's for sure.

[Centurion1]

Well the french actually gained money from the revolution. This is "if" they won. remember to the victor goes the spoils. The war for americas freedom was more than a petty squabble between a mother and her child it soon became an entire conflict between the family (europe)