Police abuses

**Crazed Rabbit** · 05-20-2009, 20:16

Originally Posted by Shinseikhaan

I know that these incidents are crazy, but what exactly has the point of the thread become? That police forces need better regulation on who is allowed to become officer? Harsher punishment for thug cops?

In a sentence, I want some real, actual punishment for cops who break the law - and a dismantling of the system of silence and cover ups in police departments that protects them. Discussions on how to achieve that would certainly be appropriate. I think civilian oversight boards with full, constant access to all police documents and reports, and the power to discipline and fire cops, would be good. Something that's not the pathetic internal reviews that exist today.

The thread seems to have become a listing of abuses I use to prove that not only do abuses exist, but that they are systemic. Plus it means I don't start a new thread whenever I round up another batch of cop news items.

CR

**seireikhaan** · 05-20-2009, 20:31

Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

In a sentence, I want some real, actual punishment for cops who break the law - and a dismantling of the system of silence and cover ups in police departments that protects them. Discussions on how to achieve that would certainly be appropriate. I think civilian oversight boards with full, constant access to all police documents and reports, and the power to discipline and fire cops, would be good. Something that's not the pathetic internal reviews that exist today.

The thread seems to have become a listing of abuses I use to prove that not only do abuses exist, but that they are systemic. Plus it means I don't start a new thread whenever I round up another batch of cop news items.

CR

Well, I would not say that police abuses are systemic- I find the word a bit strong. Certainly a problem, no doubt. I rather like the civilian oversight board idea, but it would be a bit tricky in practice; do the members get paid, is it a full time job? Would it be more like jury duty, where anyone could potentially get called in for a given service? Hmm....

**Vuk** · 05-20-2009, 20:47

You know what I think is much more dangerous and in need of urgent reform? Legislative abuses. They are much more common, have much worse consequences often times, and they are barely ever touched. You are not gonna root out the bad jackets until you go after the suits. Go for the guys up top who allow this type of corruption and replace them with honest, diligent people. 99% of police I believe are decent people, and a lot of police abuses are caused by repeat offenders who should have been fired the first time. The reason that they weren't is because of the corrupt supervisors and such. Go after the suits, and the jackets will tow the line. Go after the jackets (who are mostly innocent, dutiful people who put their lives on the line for you and I) and all you will do is scare away good people from the profession, and only opportunists who know hirer ups will join, and nothing will be done about them. The good cops will feel defensive, feel like they are being treated unfairly, and their morale will be considerably lowered. When police exercise too great an amount of caution, innocent people can die. That is what will happen when you attack the police men and women themselves (and you know what? Most of them don't deserve such accusations as are usually leveled against the force as a whole (except Stateys, they deserve it all

)).

Go after all the

corrupt bureaucrats (which there are a lot more of) and you will take care of most of the problems with police abuses AND get rid of so much of the financial corruption that is crippling many municipalities. (My county comes to mind *cough*) And you know what? I bet that abuses AGAINST cops are a LOT more common than abuses by cops against civs. Why is no one crying about all the violence done to police? What, are they not human beings? Is it irrelevant?

**Mooks** · 05-21-2009, 19:18

Originally Posted by Just Vuk Again

You know what I think is much more dangerous and in need of urgent reform? Legislative abuses. They are much more common, have much worse consequences often times, and they are barely ever touched. You are not gonna root out the bad jackets until you go after the suits. Go for the guys up top who allow this type of corruption and replace them with honest, diligent people. 99% of police I believe are decent people, and a lot of police abuses are caused by repeat offenders who should have been fired the first time. The reason that they weren't is because of the corrupt supervisors and such. Go after the suits, and the jackets will tow the line. Go after the jackets (who are mostly innocent, dutiful people who put their lives on the line for you and I) and all you will do is scare away good people from the profession, and only opportunists who know hirer ups will join, and nothing will be done about them. The good cops will feel defensive, feel like they are being treated unfairly, and their morale will be considerably lowered. When police exercise too great an amount of caution, innocent people can die. That is what will happen when you attack the police men and women themselves (and you know what? Most of them don't deserve such accusations as are usually leveled against the force as a whole (except Stateys, they deserve it all

)).

Go after all the

corrupt bureaucrats (which there are a lot more of) and you will take care of most of the problems with police abuses AND get rid of so much of the financial corruption that is crippling many municipalities. (My county comes to mind *cough*) And you know what? I bet that abuses AGAINST cops are a LOT more common than abuses by cops against civs. Why is no one crying about all the violence done to police? What, are they not human beings? Is it irrelevant?

Exactly what bureaucrats are you talking about? Are you talking about the Police Chiefs or what?

**Crazed Rabbit** · 05-23-2009, 04:04

Vuk; we have laws against assaulting people, including the police. When the police are assaulted, or abused, the people who did it are prosecuted. Often much more than if they had abused someone who wasn't a cop. The legal system gets into gear and the abuser is held to account for their actions.

The damnable thing about all the abuse by cops is that they are so very rarely held to account if they break the law and abuse people. That's my biggest problem, and why police abuses are so terrible; they are not punished. By the virtue of their position and their fellows, they do not have to answer for their crimes; they are above the law.

The reason that they weren't is because of the corrupt supervisors and such. Go after the suits, and the jackets will tow the line. Go after the jackets (who are mostly innocent, dutiful people who put their lives on the line for you and I) and all you will do is scare away good people from the profession, and only opportunists who know hirer ups will join, and nothing will be done about them.

Sorry, but it certainly is not just supervisors. All levels are complicit in not reporting abuse. Rank and file cops who cover up for abusers should be hunted down with the abusers. Doing so will result in less power-tripping scumbags joining, and less covering up for cops who abuse their power.

But this case above, well, he was speeding, 100mph is not scary but the guy who makes the video sounds like some weird sadist as well, trying to harass the cop for it and enjoying that the cop doesn't know what to do. that the cop does not beat or arrest him actually speaks for the cop if you ask me.

Ya, the guy who made the video is no saint. The cynic in me says the cop didn't arrest him because he was too inexperienced and alone.

Another, not funny, video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtgRAr4wnFQ

More cops acting like rabid dogs when they come upon a suspect who has gone prone and spread eagle on the ground.

And, of course, the police union says the kick was justified as a "distraction blow";

The kick to the head delivered by an El Monte police officer to a car-chase suspect lying on the ground at the end of a televised high-speed pursuit was a legally justified “distraction blow," an attorney for the police union said today.

Dieter Dammeier, attorney for the El Monte Police Officers Assn, said the officer acted within his training and department policy when he delivered the kick.

“Unfortunately these things never look good on video. Sometimes officers have to use force when dealing with bad guys,” said Dammeier. “The officer initially came upon the suspect alone. The suspect hadn’t been searched and was a parolee and a gang member. The individual officer saw some movement. He feared the parolee might have a weapon or be about to get up. So the officer did what is known as a distraction blow. It wasn’t designed to hurt the man, just distract him."

El Monte officers, he said “are trained to deliver a distraction blow to stop a [suspect] doing what they planning on doing.”

CR