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Thread: Late-Term Abortion Provider Gunned Down In Church

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    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Late-Term Abortion Provider Gunned Down In Church

    The man was sick. Unfortunately he lived to destroy life. What do you do with monsters like that when the state refuses to lock them up?

    I'll pray for him, but is name will be at the end of the list of the 60,000 infants he has killed, so it may take a while.
    Last edited by ICantSpellDawg; 06-02-2009 at 01:53.
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    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Late-Term Abortion Provider Gunned Down In Church

    This man did not deserve to die, no one does. To suggest otherwise is to miss the point of Christianity as a religion. This man was not a murderer, he was a doctor; he no doubt thought he was helping people by offering this service, aliviating suffering and making lives better. The fact that he was killing upborn children is itself hgorrific, but it says more about American society than this one man.

    I see no evidence he was anything other than normal and well adjusted, no doubt he also had a support staff and family and friends who thought his job was acceptable, I doubt he enjoyed parts of it very much. The fact that he felt this particular evil was necessary is truly dreadful, but those condemning him here should examine the world around them and ask how he was brought to this state.

    As to those Christians condemning him here, I say two things: "Love the sinner, hate the sin" and remember that Jesus went to the prostitutes, thieves and tax collectors, I'm sure he had dinner with a Greek doctor who performed abortions as well.

    This man is dead, he and his family deserve compassion, sympathy, protection, forgiveness and love; not hate and recrimination.
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    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Late-Term Abortion Provider Gunned Down In Church

    Quote Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla View Post

    I see no evidence he was anything other than normal and well adjusted, no doubt he also had a support staff and family and friends who thought his job was acceptable, I doubt he enjoyed parts of it very much.

    Take this link: www.drtiller.com/remembrance.html

    and put it in to google. Then, Cache the page and look at what this "clinic" used to promote. They would photograph dead babies as a part of their "services". They would perform baptisms of the babies after death. Does that sound normal to you?

    The fact remains that the man made millions killing tens of thousands of pre-born infants. He was also one of 3 doctors in the US who performed the most blatantly outrageous forms of infanticide that the law is still gray on. The media didn't need to take a moment of silence for Mengele. Their rememberances betray their much denied bias. The sad thing is that this barbarism hasn't been dealt with in the 21st century.

    Every human has elements of humanity in them. It should be no suprise when even the worst of them have loving families. Evil is the sum of the acts that you take in life. By reasonable standards this man was human being who commited a myriad of crimes agaisnt the most innocent among his own people.
    Last edited by ICantSpellDawg; 06-02-2009 at 05:05.
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    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: Late-Term Abortion Provider Gunned Down In Church

    Quote Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff View Post
    They would photograph dead babies as a part of their "services". They would perform baptisms of the babies after death. Does that sound normal to you?
    This is the second time that you're brought baptism up [edit, my bad, I see it was Xiahou who jumped on this first]. I can very easily imagine a situation where a couple terminates a non-viable fetus and still wants the blessing of baptism for their child.

    Before we started successfully spawning, my wife and I went through a miscarriage at three months. Let me assure you, just because I never met that child doesn't mean I don't love it have tender feelings. Sorry, but your emphasis on services that might help a grieving couple don't wash, and they smell of unthinking hype. Whether it's a miscarriage or an abortion, losing a baby hurts. A record of baptism and a picture might help a hurting mother and father get through what must be a traumatic experience.

    Some (many?) abortions are due to non-viable fetuses. Not everyone is using abortion as birth control. Consider this before you fire your next fusillade.

    -edit-

    Here's the text you're referring to:

    Many patients request a remembrance of their baby to take home with them. The following lists items and services that some of our previous patients have found helpful in their emotional recovery. Everyone approaches this experience with their own unique emotional, spiritual, and cultural background. There is not right way or wrong way, just "your way". Once the process of healing has begun, you may want to consider a token of the precious time you and your baby had together. All of these features of our program will be discusssed with you while you are with us:
    • Viewing your baby after delivery
    • Holding your baby after delivery
    • Photographs of your baby
    • Baptism of your baby, with or without a certificate
    • Footprints and handprints of your baby
    • Certificate of premature miscarriage
    • Cremation
    • An urn for ashes
    • Arrangement of burial in either Wichita or your home state
    • Arrangement of amniocentesis/autopsy
    • Medical photographsand x-rays for your health care professional

    Grief is a very complex emotion which is expressed in many different ways. We will attempt to accommodate your individual requests to the very best of our abilities.

    This does not sound ghoulish to me, having lost a child to miscarriage. This looks like an attempt to help people deal with grief. Although I oppose late-term abortions, I don't appreciate your attempt to score theatrical points from what appears to be a well-meaning attempt to let parents connect with the child they will never know.
    Last edited by Lemur; 06-02-2009 at 06:06.

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    Oni Member Samurai Waki's Avatar
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    Default Re: Late-Term Abortion Provider Gunned Down In Church

    There have been men, who made millions and stood behind the Pro Life Banner, using less than Scrupulous means to attain their wealth. Or do televangelists not exist anymore? I'm not sure if stealing old people's pensions to line one's pocket is morally sound... and yet at the same time feel they can blast abortion doctors, who legitimately believe they are doing a necessary evil. It may be the "devil's" work, but its honest in it's intent.

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    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
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    Default Re: Late-Term Abortion Provider Gunned Down In Church

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur View Post
    Some (many?) abortions are due to non-viable fetuses. Not everyone is using abortion as birth control. Consider this before you fire your next fusillade.
    It's an irrelevant argument to me. I never had any doubt that the man provided some percentage of "abortions" to terminate a non-viable pregnancy. If that were all he performed, a lot of people would likely have viewed him more kindly. However, his practice also provided and advertised elective late-term abortions.
    Quote Originally Posted by website
    At Women's Health Care Services, we specialize in "late" abortion care. We are able to perform elective abortions to the time in the pregnancy when the fetus is viable. Viability is not a set point in time. Viability is determined by the attending physician and is based on sonogram results, physical examination and last menstrual period date (if known). Our telephone counselors will ask you a number of medical questions to determine if you are eligible for an elective abortion. If you have visited another clinic or physician, we will ask for the results from a recent ultrasound.

    Kansas law allows for post-viability abortion procedures when continuing the pregnancy is detrimental to the pregnant woman's health. Each person's circumstances are reviewed on a case-by-base basis. Please call so that we can discuss admission criteria with you.
    They're taking care to state Kansas law and then go on to explain the many loopholes for terminating viable pregnancies electively.

    It was a disgusting practice. Trying to put a better face on it by saying that some of the abortions were non-viable doesn't change the fact that many were.
    Last edited by Xiahou; 06-02-2009 at 06:02.
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    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Late-Term Abortion Provider Gunned Down In Church

    In this thread: The Irony of the Pro-Life Campaigners.
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    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: Late-Term Abortion Provider Gunned Down In Church

    Quote Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff View Post
    What do you do with monsters like that when the state refuses to lock them up?
    The state "refuses" to punish the doctor because of the law. We should work on changing that law, not on vilifying and murdering the people who perform procedures that we find abhorrent.

    I have to tell you, in cases where the baby is found to have a defect that guarantees a painful, prolonged and expensive death, I don't know what's right. I just read an account of a child who was brought to term who required three (three!) heart surgeries before suffering an inevitable death at one week of age. This child's entire existence was open-chest surgery and pain.

    I wouldn't inflict that on my dog, much less my child.

    I guess if I had to make that call, I'd support my wife in either an abortion or a DNR with the hospital (assuming they'd allow it). And plenty of narcotics for my baby, to send him or her out on a sea of morphine.

    Non-viable fetuses are what make me stumble in my opposition to late-term abortions. Thoughts?
    Last edited by Lemur; 06-02-2009 at 03:58.

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