There was no Britain till 1707! also about redcoats

[al Roumi]

Bravo Didz, BRAVO!

What a beautifully crafted response, scorn and knowledge intertwined to form a perfect fabric of rebuttal. :)

[Phog_of_War]

Bravo Didz, BRAVO!

What a beautifully crafted response, scorn and knowledge intertwined to form a perfect fabric of rebuttal. :)

Indeed. Take a bow, sir.

And by the way. I happened to love the RTI. Perhaps its my Yankee upbringing?

All things considered, I have to admit that Europen history and the wars therin, are fasinating.

But while the American revolution was in effect a sideshow, I believe it was the only rebelion going at the time. And as we all know (seeing as how most of the folks on this fourm are amature historians) rebelions are like car accidents. Its horrible and maybe someone (or a couple hundred thousand) died, but we just cant keep ourselves from at least taking a glance at it. If not downright stopping to watch the carnage unfold.

[Didz]

But while the American revolution was in effect a sideshow, I believe it was the only rebelion going at the time.

Ouch! What you just said

Ok! Bit of a history lesson

Rebellions

1715 First Jacobite Uprising.

1745 The Jabobite Rebellion (take 2) Bonny Prince Charlie, Culloden, the birth of Great Britain and the United Kingdom) Just a minor thing really, unless your a Scot of course. Tartan is banned for something like 100 years.

1773-1774 The Pugachev Revolt in Russia. Emelian Pugachev, a Don Cossack freebooter, rallied thousands of disaffected peasants by proclaiming himself Tsar Peter III, who had been actually been deposed in 1762. “This is a revolt of the poor against the rich, of the slaves against their masters.” Defeated by Catherine the Great. Russian peasants would remain downtrodden until 1914.

1775-1776 The American Revolution

1789 The French Revolution begins. France copies Britian and kills its King, but unlike Britain fails to get rid of the dictator that steps into his shoes. Heroes ??? (The Scarlet Pimpernel perhaps?)

Other key events equally worthy of special campigns.

1700-1721 The Great Northern War (Epic conflict between Sweden and Russia and most of europe, Peter the Great, major hero of)

1701-1714 The War of the Spanish Succession (Austria, Prussia, Britain, Dutch, Savoy, Portugal) v (France, Spain, Bavaria) Duke of Marlborough major hero of, probably the best General in British history. This was the war that set the standard the British Army has aspired to ever since, for which the French have never forgiven us.

1733-1738 The War of the Polish Succession (France, Spain, Savoy) v (Russia, Austria, Saxony)

1740-1748 The War of the Austrian Succession (Frederick the Great, major hero of, also Marshal Saxe famous writer of historical references on the art of war commanded in this conflict.)

1744-1748 King Georges War (France, New France) v (Britain, British America, The Iroquios Confederacy) Essentially the American theatre of the War of the Austrian Succesison

1744-1782 The Rise of the British Indian Empire, Clive of India major hero of, Battle of Plassey, the French learn to hate us even more.

1756-1763 The Seven Years War (Prussia, Britain, Hannover, Portugal, Iroquios Confederacy, Brunswick-Wolfenbuttel, Hesse-Kassel) v (France, Holy Roman Empire, Russia, Sweden, Spain, Saxony, Sardinia) Loads of heroes in this one inlcuding Frederick the Great, Wolfe, Montcalme and Von Daun. Too many great battles to list but Quebec, Minden (more glory for the British over the French), Zorndorf, Rossbach (Big Prussian victory over Russia and then France) French and Indian War in America. France decides to throw in the towel in India and let the British have it.

1778-1779 The War of the Bavarian Succession (Austria) v (Prussia, Bavaria, Saxony) Maria Theresa of Austria v Frederick the Great. Effectively, keeping them out of the American War of Independance

1799 The rise of Napoleon as Emperor/dictator of France.

[Phog_of_War]

Well, I stand corrected. I posted very late at nite for me (I work overnites) and my thinking cap may have been a bit askew at the time.


Except that I said, the American Revolution was the only rebelion going at the time. And according to the dates you posted above, I am right. But I'm not here to fight about it.


I should have prefaced my previous post by saying that I have almost no knowlege of Europen history prior to the 1800's or so, aside from a few medieval wars and battles. It simply was not touched on while I was in college. Shame about that. I would have like a bit of a more rounded curiculum regarding European wars in the 1700's. I will have to do a bit of reading and research into some of the other conflicts you mentioned Didz.

Of course I knew about the 7 Years War simply because it was in the foreground of world conflicts at the time of the Revolution, and was a major factor in the War for Independence. The 7 Years War kept England from throwing the full might of her armies at the American uprising. If England was not embroiled in conflict(s) in Europe, the Revolution would have been crushed in its infancy, and we would still be eating crumpets and having tea in the afternoon.

[Vlad Tzepes]

Hummmm... Maybe now it's the right time and place to start all over the old "where-is-my-beloved-Wallachia" argument?

Nah, maybe not. It's just a game.

[Didz]

Except that I said, the American Revolution was the only rebelion going at the time. And according to the dates you posted above, I am right. But I'm not here to fight about it.

Well if you discount the ongoing problems Britain had in India then the American Revolution was the only event in the British diary for the two years 1775-1776, but the issue of the AWI was originally raised in the context of the period covered by the game e.g. 1700-1799, and in that respect it has a lot of competition as a significant historical event beyond the borders of the USA.

[Phog_of_War]

Well if you discount the ongoing problems Britain had in India then the American Revolution was the only event in the British diary for the two years 1775-1776, but the issue of the AWI was originally raised in the context of the period covered by the game e.g. 1700-1799, and in that respect it has a lot of competition as a significant historical event beyond the borders of the USA.

True.

My knowlege of the era is unfortunatly shaped by my Ameri-centric viewpoint, education and upbringing. And didnt Britian have problems in India from day one all the way up till India was granted independence by Britain?


Anyway, back on topic, because this thread has morphed into something else that the OP probably did not intend.

Weren't English Redcoats also called Lobsterbacks in New England??

[antisocialmunky]

It would have been fun playing as the 3 colonies in campaign though :)

[Didz]

Weren't English Redcoats also called Lobsterbacks in New England??

Not specifically.

The terms 'Lobster' and or 'Bullocks' were apparently rather unflattering naval expressions used to refer to the Marines that served on their ships. Some of these marines would have been drawn from regular army regiments at times and so I'm pretty sure the two terms would have been used to refer to any soldier, who the seaman considered rather 'dumb', 'docile' and 'uninteliigent'. The relationship was not helped by the fact that the Marines were there as much to protect the Captain and Officers from the crew as to form a valuable contribution to the fighting of the ship.

However, neither term caught on outside the navy and the only real reason I know about them is through reading books by Cornwell and Kent.

Incidently, I had a look at the official British Army record of what nicknames were used for British Soliders and found a few more interesting ones.

1. 'Tommy Atkins' or 'Tommy' for short. The origins are obscure but most probably derive from a specimen army form circulated by the Adjutant-General Sir Harry Calvert to all units in 1815 where the blanks had been filled in with the particulars of a Private Thomas Atkins, No 6 Company, 23rd Regiment of Foot. Present day British soldiers are often referred to as 'Toms' or just 'Tom'.

2. 'Squaddies'. Outside the services soldiers are generally known as 'Squaddies' by the British popular press. Urban Dictionary: A member of the Army. They hang about in squads for safety (even when off duty), hence squaddie. Often found wearing an unofficial style of uniform while in town drinking consisting of: - A pair of faded blue jeans, - Desert boots (or Rockports, CAT's etc) and a fleece style top.

3. 'Jocks' Another nickname which applies only to soldiers in Scottish regiments is 'Jocks', derived from the fact that in Scotland the common Christian name John is often changed to Jock in the vernacular.

4. 'Taffs' Welsh soldiers are occasionally referred to as 'Taffy' or just 'Taff'. This most likely only applies to those from the Taff-ely Vally in South Wales, where a large portion of men, left unemployed from the decline of the coal industry in the area, enlisted in the military during WW1 and 2.

5. Paddy's or Mick's Irish soldiers are referred to as Paddy's or Mick's, this from the days when many Irish recruits had the name Patrick or Michael.

5. 'Ruperts' Junior officers in the army are generally known as 'Ruperts' by the Other ranks. This nickname is believed to be derived from the children's comic book character Rupert Bear who epitomizes traditional public school values.[8]

6. Pongo or Perce: The term 'Pongo', as in 'where the army goes the pong goes', or 'Perce' is often used by Sailors and Royal Marines to refer to soldiers. It is not considered complimentary.

French Nicknames for the British Soldiers they were fighting are surprisingly hard to find on google. However, the most common one I've come across is 'Goddam's', which originated in the 100 years war and was an attempt to riddicule the British soldiers speech which apparently often started with that expression. The term is still in use amongst the French speakers of Canada and Louisiana and was apparently used recently in a song by Zachary Richards. http://www.zacharyrichard.com/lyrics/reveille.html

The French seem to have a habit of trying to do this with foriegn soldiers, I've read other accounts of French troops trying to make fun their enemies by mimicking their language. There was an incident in the Napoleonic Wars where French Cavalry took to shouting 'Au Rat! Au Rat!' at the Austrian's. As far as I can tell the phrase itself is meaningless but they obviously thought it was somehow funny, and it must have sounded like an Austrian drill command or something. As usual with the French the idea completely missed the point and neither the Austrian's nor the British were insulted by these actions, merely concluding that all Frenchmen are mad. In fact the British would have considered being called 'God Damned' a compliment.