white supremacist opens fire at US Holocaust Museum

[TinCow]

Must disturbing posts in this thread and it hasn't even been commented much on. This is condoning the attack by a white racist against a holocaust museum on the grounds that that "no one died". Though it is also now revealed the security guard has died.

According to Tibilicus, grabbing your gun and firing at security guards is A-OK. Who cares about if they are innocent or justice, time to go Left4Dead style on mall-cops.

As far as the second post goes, I actually kind of agree with him. I also saw it on the front page of the BBC news website first, which seems very strange to me. I work in DC and we have murders here every single week without fail. Few of those deaths even make the front page of the Washington Post, let alone front and center on most major news websites around the world. This is essentially another aspect of hate-crime laws: singling out individuals who commit crimes based on racial/religious/etc. motivations. I am personally very opposed to this, as I think it furthers the notion that we are not all the same in the eyes of the law. A murder is a murder is a murder. The motivations behind a particular murder should not be sufficient grounds to differentiate between a story buried 30 pages deep in a local paper and a story that gets front-page billing on international news websites.

I can certainly see the sensationalism in the notion of an anti-Semitic murder (which was clearly this guy's motivations), but that doesn't change the fact that it's inequitable coverage. There are plenty of murders all over the US every day that are motivated by race, but we Jews are always given extra-special treatment as a result of sensitivity over the Holocaust. I don't see what makes this nutjob any more news-worthy than the other random office shootings we get every month in the US. They are all equally tragic and should be treated the same. My life (Jewish) is no more valuable than my wife's (Christian). I would hope her murder would get as much attention as mine would.

[Tribesman]

Some people are saying he's right wing. I am simply arguing otherwise.

But he was a right wing fruitcake , plus he loved the second amendment and wanted to make a display against the tyrannical government as a patriot because his country had been taken over by a negro puppet of the anti-American global jewish cabal.
Hey that last bit sounds just like something Rush said the other day .

[Beskar]

As far as the second post goes, I actually kind of agree with him. I also saw it on the front page of the BBC news website first, which seems very strange to me. I work in DC and we have murders here every single week without fail. Few of those deaths even make the front page of the Washington Post, let alone front and center on most major news websites around the world. This is essentially another aspect of hate-crime laws: singling out individuals who commit crimes based on racial/religious/etc. motivations. I am personally very opposed to this, as I think it furthers the notion that we are not all the same in the eyes of the law. A murder is a murder is a murder. The motivations behind a particular murder should not be sufficient grounds to differentiate between a story buried 30 pages deep in a local paper and a story that gets front-page billing on international news websites.

I can certainly see the sensationalism in the notion of an anti-Semitic murder (which was clearly this guy's motivations), but that doesn't change the fact that it's inequitable coverage. There are plenty of murders all over the US every day that are motivated by race, but we Jews are always given extra-special treatment as a result of sensitivity over the Holocaust. I don't see what makes this nutjob any more news-worthy than the other random office shootings we get every month in the US. They are all equally tragic and should be treated the same. My life (Jewish) is no more valuable than my wife's (Christian). I would hope her murder would get as much attention as mine would.

Being honest, they the media always do stories like this. I remember the story in the top 10 about illegal drugs found in a game of GTA4 (18 rated) which a father bought for his 12 year old son saying he was greatly offended by it.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7990927.stm

My post was more the very blunt nature of it. He saw nothing wrong in the idea of some nutjob going to a museum and blowing holes into security guards just comparing it to a storm in a tea cup. You could always obviously raise the point that he wouldn't definitely make that claim to the families of those involved saying that to their face. There is a fundamental difference to "I believe there are more pressing international news" to "Nothing wrong with a good ol' shot up, no one died, righty?".

It down to the question of "What is the value of a human life?", is the killing of an innocent merely a ripple of your tea while you bring the cup to your mouth. There is obviously a sense of personal detachment, but to completely shake it off as nothing at all, is a very disturbing thought. It goes back to the saying of Josef Stalin "the death of one is a tragedy, the death of millions is simply a statistic".

[Vladimir]

Considering the number of people at the museum this tragedy could have been far worse. The security team did a fine job of containing this bastard. Condolences to Officer Johns's family & friends.

To hell with the political BS in the thread, this is what it's all about. That guard did a damn fine job and I'm glad the nutter didn't die. He wanted to die, now he gets to suffer a little more for his actions.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

But he was a right wing fruitcake , plus he loved the second amendment and wanted to make a display against the tyrannical government as a patriot because his country had been taken over by a negro puppet of the anti-American global jewish cabal.
Hey that last bit sounds just like something Rush said the other day .

Really? Surely such a big Rush fan as yourself could provide evidence of such a tirade, chapter and verse as it were?

I personally don't care for him so I couldn't tell you what he's been saying about our overlords, Jewish or octosquid or otherwise.

[Kadagar_AV]

Vladimir,

My special order of Gulden Draak came in yesterday. Maybe I'll pick it up tomorrow.

Gulden Draak is the BEST beer of all times! If I were you I would not wait...




as to the topic... a guy is dead.

Simultaneosly, in the real world, thousands of children starve to death each day.

RIP to the security guy, but really, what is the fuss about?

[Marshal Murat]

The big hub-ub is that this guy, breaking all the "rules of society", walks up to a memorial and starts shooting. It's akin to some neo-nazi running across the Normandy graveyards with a rifle. It's not supposed to happen, should've been stopped, and it downright disgusting (plus, it's ULTRA SENSATIONAL! 24-7 "news" channels eat this stuff up). I mean, it's unrealistic that this nutter would've "talked" his way to victory, but everyone's afraid this is slipping America into anarchy or something.

[KukriKhan]

You're 88. Grew up in the Great Depression. Fought in "The Big One". Later, you lead a mediocre life, never quite hitting it big, despite your hard work and unappreciated brilliance. In the 70's you learn about government conspiracies (Watergate, etc) and start tying threads together. There are invisible hands behind your failure. The Jews and the Blacks have held you back, and are ruining your country. And your race.

Your wife finally leaves you. Your book doesn't sell. Your new-found 'net presence draws some attention, but only lukewarm support. Your fellow Aryans ignore your call to immediate action. Your whole claim to fame is staging a kidnap-the-Fed event that fails.

Your deserve fame and pride, but instead, you have failed. You just have a couple years left. What to do?

Pick up a swap-meet shotgun, and go to a symbolic place you know is heavily guarded, fire on the first uniform you see, and wait for...

Suicide By Cop.






nutter.

[Crazed Rabbit]

He saw nothing wrong in the idea of some nutjob going to a museum and blowing holes into security guards just comparing it to a storm in a tea cup.

Reading failure. :(

What sick pleasure do these bastards get out of this?

See Kukri's post above mine.

CR

[CountArach]

See Kukri's post above mine.

CR

Yeah... utterly insane.

"I'm a failure in life... I'm going to take someone with me."

[KarlXII]

Too bad the security guard died. RIP.

As for right wing - being a racist or nazi doesn't make you right wing. Perhaps one should look at which party controlled the south after reconstruction ended, and all the racist policies they had (hint - the Democratic party).

CR

The Democratic Party was the conservative party of that time. The Republicans were seen as progressive (go figure).

The Democratic Party probably became the progressive, leftist party it's known for today around the time of Kennedy. In the late 1800s, blacks voted for Republicans due to their progressive attitude. Now they vote for Democrats for the same thing.

[Fragony]

Yep sounds like suicide by cop, shame it failed now you have to feed it.

[Kralizec]

R.I.P.

[Hosakawa Tito]

You're 88. Grew up in the Great Depression. Fought in "The Big One". Later, you lead a mediocre life, never quite hitting it big, despite your hard work and unappreciated brilliance. In the 70's you learn about government conspiracies (Watergate, etc) and start tying threads together. There are invisible hands behind your failure. The Jews and the Blacks have held you back, and are ruining your country. And your race.

Your wife finally leaves you. Your book doesn't sell. Your new-found 'net presence draws some attention, but only lukewarm support. Your fellow Aryans ignore your call to immediate action. Your whole claim to fame is staging a kidnap-the-Fed event that fails.

Your deserve fame and pride, but instead, you have failed. You just have a couple years left. What to do?

Pick up a swap-meet shotgun, and go to a symbolic place you know is heavily guarded, fire on the first uniform you see, and wait for...

Suicide By Cop.






nutter.

Yeah, too bad he couldn't have just settled for slowly fading away at the Aryan Nation Old Folks Home, setting on the porch in his rocking chair regaling colleagues & the young whippersnappers with his war stories. Nope, a perfect right to the end of his miserable existence. Crazy world....

[tibilicus]

Being honest, they the media always do stories like this. I remember the story in the top 10 about illegal drugs found in a game of GTA4 (18 rated) which a father bought for his 12 year old son saying he was greatly offended by it.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7990927.stm

My post was more the very blunt nature of it. He saw nothing wrong in the idea of some nutjob going to a museum and blowing holes into security guards just comparing it to a storm in a tea cup. You could always obviously raise the point that he wouldn't definitely make that claim to the families of those involved saying that to their face. There is a fundamental difference to "I believe there are more pressing international news" to "Nothing wrong with a good ol' shot up, no one died, righty?".

It down to the question of "What is the value of a human life?", is the killing of an innocent merely a ripple of your tea while you bring the cup to your mouth. There is obviously a sense of personal detachment, but to completely shake it off as nothing at all, is a very disturbing thought. It goes back to the saying of Josef Stalin "the death of one is a tragedy, the death of millions is simply a statistic".

LOL!

Read what I wrote again, I didn't say anything along those lines. "Nothing wrong with a good ol' shot up, no one died, righty?".


Where did I say that or suggest that? You still refuse to respond to me directly yet still wish to make up lies about what I wrote. I fail to see how anything I said was "disturbing". You obviously failed to even determine the meaning from what I wrote. Seeming no one else has commented on it and no one else has an issue with it, it suggest your acting ridiculous and love throwing around false accusations?

Also pluck up the courage to respond to me directly before accusing me of crazy things, your neurotic, seek help.

[Beskar]

So your statement "No one died as far as I know, so it is all good" is not classified as condoning the attack?

Definition of condone is as follows according to the online dictionary: "To forgive, excuse or overlook (something); To allow, accept or permit (something); To forgive (marital infidelity or other marital offense)"

You did this with the reason "No one died", however, you still forgive/excuse/overlook the fact the person walked into the museum and let barrels blazing at security guards.

My "lie" was simply a parody version of your statement, and has the same meaning. The parody statement condones the attack because no one died. Therefore, it isn't actually a lie.

Please learn definitions, and while you are at it, look up the definition of neurotic, it would actually apply more to you in this incidence.

Regards.

[tibilicus]

So your statement "No one died as far as I know, so it is all good" is not classified as condoning the attack?

Definition of condone is as follows according to the online dictionary: "To forgive, excuse or overlook (something); To allow, accept or permit (something); To forgive (marital infidelity or other marital offense)"

You did this with the reason "No one died", however, you still forgive/excuse/overlook the fact the person walked into the museum and let barrels blazing at security guards.

My "lie" was simply a parody version of your statement, and has the same meaning. The parody statement condones the attack because no one died. Therefore, it isn't actually a lie.

Please learn definitions, and while you are at it, look up the definition of neurotic, it would actually apply more to you in this incidence.

Regards.

Did I mention I forgave and thought it was acceptable that some one went into a museum and started shooting at people? NO.

And yes, I know what neurotic means and you would come under the term neurotic. Your getting all hysterical and throwing around accusations about something I didn't even say! "It's all good" as in the situation is all good and luckily wasn't as bad as it could of been. For example "my friends daughter got hit by a car today but AFAIK she was hit at a slow speed and therefore wasn't hurt so it's all good" Therefore because my friends daughter wasn't badly injured and the situation wasn't a major one, the slang term "all good" could be used.



No one else seems to of uncovered the fact that I condone and support white supremacy but hey, you managed to dig away and it looks like I've been trumped!

[Beskar]

However, you never actually said "the situation could have got worse, its all good as far as I know as in no one died, luckily". You can't automatically assume by using slang/"bad English" that everyone would know exactly what you are talking about.

If you said that, then we wouldn't even have this conversation.

Using your example of friends daughter, remove your slang definition from it in this statement. "My friends daughter got hit by a car, it is all good." sounds like you have no remorse about that fact she got hit.

[tibilicus]

However, you never actually said "the situation could have got worse, its all good as far as I know as in no one died, luckily". You can't automatically assume by using slang/"bad English" that everyone would know exactly what you are talking about.

If you said that, then we wouldn't even have this conversation.

Everyone did understand, minus you.

Done here, PM if you have an issue with me in future.

[Ser Clegane]

PM if you have an issue with me in future.

And I would highly appreciate if there would not be any reciprocal accusations of being "neurotic".

Thanks

[Louis VI the Fat]

As far as the second post goes, I actually kind of agree with him. I also saw it on the front page of the BBC news website first, which seems very strange to me. I work in DC and we have murders here every single week without fail. Few of those deaths even make the front page of the Washington Post, let alone front and center on most major news websites around the world. This is essentially another aspect of hate-crime laws: singling out individuals who commit crimes based on racial/religious/etc. motivations. I am personally very opposed to this, as I think it furthers the notion that we are not all the same in the eyes of the law. A murder is a murder is a murder. The motivations behind a particular murder should not be sufficient grounds to differentiate between a story buried 30 pages deep in a local paper and a story that gets front-page billing on international news websites.

I can certainly see the sensationalism in the notion of an anti-Semitic murder (which was clearly this guy's motivations), but that doesn't change the fact that it's inequitable coverage. There are plenty of murders all over the US every day that are motivated by race, but we Jews are always given extra-special treatment as a result of sensitivity over the Holocaust. I don't see what makes this nutjob any more news-worthy than the other random office shootings we get every month in the US. They are all equally tragic and should be treated the same. My life (Jewish) is no more valuable than my wife's (Christian). I would hope her murder would get as much attention as mine would.

Strangely, I am reminded of the NYT's old publisher, Sulzberger. It might belong better in the Jiddish Kvetching corner, but I'll link to the story here.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m.../ai_n29153489/

[Tribesman]

Yeah, too bad he couldn't have just settled for slowly fading away at the Aryan Nation Old Folks Home

Can we blame Stormfront for this ?
After all getting all the .....why don't more people appreciate your genius and enjoy your literary masterpieces .....over the past couple of years must have grated on his nerves as to why he hadn't chieved as much notoriety as he desired
The great man who stood up to the ******s & ***s and suffered in prison because a *** judge and ****** jury run by ***s railroaded him for his legitimate protests as a true patriot.
The "election" of a ****** puppet of the ***s to run the nation is really the last straw, its time for action by all good ***** christians to make their presence felt.


Now to cross reference another topic .....reading the Neo Nazi websites gives a great reason to allow Nick Griffin to speak freely before actually pelting him with whatever is at hand .

[Hosakawa Tito]

Can we blame Stormfront for this ?
After all getting all the .....why don't more people appreciate your genius and enjoy your literary masterpieces .....over the past couple of years must have grated on his nerves as to why he hadn't chieved as much notoriety as he desired
The great man who stood up to the ******s & ***s and suffered in prison because a *** judge and ****** jury run by ***s railroaded him for his legitimate protests as a true patriot.
The "election" of a ****** puppet of the ***s to run the nation is really the last straw, its time for action by all good ***** christians to make their presence felt.


Now to cross reference another topic .....reading the Neo Nazi websites gives a great reason to allow Nick Griffin to speak freely before actually pelting him with whatever is at hand .

“May those who love us, love us; and those who don't love us, may God turn their hearts; and if He doesn't turn their hearts, may he turn their ankles so we'll know them by their limping.”

Wonderful Irish proverb. So let Griffin speak and be on the look out for the lame.

[Hooahguy]

@Tincow-
i agree with you for the most part, but i think the reason why the media is all over this is because he opened fire in a Holocaust memorial museum. if some guy had opened fire in the MLK Center, id think that the media would be all over it as well.

[Marshal Murat]

Shooter's Son Speaks Out.

"For a long time, I believed this was our family's cross to bear," he added. "Now, it is not only my families lives that are in shambles, but those who were directly affected by his actions; especially the family of Mr. Johns, who bravely sacrificed his life to stop my father.

"I cannot express enough how deeply sorry I am it was Mr. Johns, and not my father who lost their life [Wednesday]," Erik von Brunn said. "It was unjustified and unfair that he died, and while my condolences could never begin to offer appeasement, they, along with my remorse is all I have to give."

Very strong words.

[KukriKhan]

CNN reports that the feds can't trace/track the shooter's weapon:

The source, who was not authorized to speak publicly about the investigation, said the weapon is a Winchester Model 6, .22 caliber rifle -- a type of gun manufactured between 1908 and 1928 -- long before records were kept on gun purchases.

Authorities also were checking to see if the weapon had been used in any other crime, the source said.

Dang.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

CNN reports that the feds can't trace/track the shooter's weapon:



Dang.

Does it matter? They have their man, don't they?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Correct my terrible ignorance if I'm wrong.

[KukriKhan]

Does it matter? They have their man, don't they?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Correct my terrible ignorance if I'm wrong.

Yeah, they do (have their man). He's still alive, but in critical condition (shot to his face exited through his skull, so I read). I was just hoping to be able to source the guy's weapon, since he couldn't legally possess one, due to his prior felony. Maybe lock up a bad-guy illegal gun seller.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Yeah, they do (have their man). He's still alive

More's the pity.

I was just hoping to be able to source the guy's weapon, since he couldn't legally possess one, due to his prior felony. Maybe lock up a bad-guy illegal gun seller.

Ah, I see. Point taken.

[rotorgun]

I think TinCow makes an interesting point. I think that giving such notoriety to such events only fuels the fire of anti-racist and anti-Semitic sentiments even more. That is one of their biggest complaints-the appearance (in their minds) that the media and government are controlled by some huge Zionist organization, bent on ruling the world, or some such nonsense.


Louis VI the Fat, that was an interesting bit of trivia, but aren't comparisons of events in 1942, and how people and the media viewed things different from the "post holocaust" world that came much later?