Historical Fact of the Day

[Quintus.JC]

Thus it was once more proved that horses are often smarter than their riders, as any horseman with any brains should know that a horse just won't commit suicide by impaling itself on a pike!

I've always wondered about that; whether do the horsemen really charge into forest of pikes and stakes in a suicidal attack knowing that they would be killed? Historically stakes and pikes only deterred enemy cavalry from attacking head-on, but claimed few casualties. Most horsemen retreated to find another way or dismounted, those that were foolish enough to charge often met a grisly end. At the battle of Nicopolis the Ottoman supposedly used stakes to great effect in countering the French cavalry forces, but I still don't have this pike wall and schiltrom formation completely figured out.

Ah yes - Bannockburn - where we let the Scots win for once to encourage a false sense of security!!!

Well, both Wars of Scottish Independence ended in eventual triumph for the Scots and Scotland remained independent from English rule until the Stuarts, so I wouldn't exactly say false security. Anyhow the English were always in an advantageous position; their army more numerous, better trained and equiped, also more experienced in most cases. Bravery and courage did the Scots little good until the right leader came along, but in the end they did enough.

[Sarmatian]

I've always wondered about that; whether do the horsemen really charge into forest of pikes and stakes in a suicidal attack knowing that they would be killed? Historically stakes and pikes only deterred enemy cavalry from attacking head-on, but claimed few casualties. Most horsemen retreated to find another way or dismounted, those that were foolish enough to charge often met a grisly end. At the battle of Nicopolis the Ottoman supposedly used stakes to great effect in countering the French cavalry forces, but I still don't have this pike wall and schiltrom formation completely figured out.

It forced the French knights to dismount, yes but they didn't charge against the spikes, if that's what you meant, I'm not sure I got it right.

The whole point of pike or spear wall is to present what looks as unmovable object. Horses, even when trained as war horses, tend to slow down or try to go around it, because it is not in their nature hit with full speed into something they perceive as a solid object. On the other end of the spectrum, with the pike/spear infantry, they need to hold their ground even though there is a lot of armoured men on armoured horses with something long and pointy rolling down towards them at high speed. It isn't in the nature of men hold their ground in such case. Your instinct would tell you to run or move. It depends a lot on morale and training. Troops with low morale and poor training will instinctively try to move and thus create gaps. In the worst case they would turn around and run. Of course anything that weakens the cohesion of the group will only make it worse for infantry. Because the horses don't see it no longer as a solid object, they would be less inclined to slow down or try to move around it, and it would bring on infantry the strength of the full charge.

It depends on the lot of things really, training, morale, quality of weapons and armour...

[King Kurt]

June 25th - a bit quiet today - Little Big Horn where the price of Custer's vanity came home to roost, the start of the Korean war - you know the one we have been waiting over 50 years to finish - and a few famous people born - Lord Mountbatten and George Orwell to name but a few.

[lenin96]

25th of June: The battle of Vezeronce, the establishment of diplomatic relations between the U.S.S.R and Colombia and Independance day in Mozambique.

Edit: It's also National Catfish Day in the U.S.

[KrooK]

25.06.1998 - Windows 98 release

[King Jan III Sobieski]

25 June 1876 - The death of Lieutenant Colonel George Armstrong Custer.

[King Kurt]

26/6/09 - the death of Michael Jackson - the boy who always seemed 14 dies aged 50. A modern day enigma - fantastic music but a tragic man who more than any one paid the price of celebrity

[Quintus.JC]

It forced the French knights to dismount, yes but they didn't charge against the spikes, if that's what you meant, I'm not sure I got it right.

The whole point of pike or spear wall is to present what looks as unmovable object. Horses, even when trained as war horses, tend to slow down or try to go around it, because it is not in their nature hit with full speed into something they perceive as a solid object. On the other end of the spectrum, with the pike/spear infantry, they need to hold their ground even though there is a lot of armoured men on armoured horses with something long and pointy rolling down towards them at high speed. It isn't in the nature of men hold their ground in such case. Your instinct would tell you to run or move. It depends a lot on morale and training. Troops with low morale and poor training will instinctively try to move and thus create gaps. In the worst case they would turn around and run. Of course anything that weakens the cohesion of the group will only make it worse for infantry. Because the horses don't see it no longer as a solid object, they would be less inclined to slow down or try to move around it, and it would bring on infantry the strength of the full charge.

It depends on the lot of things really, training, morale, quality of weapons and armour...

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, it appears a lot of psychological factors are involved here.