Global Warming Bill passes House

[miotas]

The earth was almost certainly far hotter millions of years ago, and the sea levels were much higher than they are today. Technically we are still in an ice-age, the earth is "normally" much hotter than it is now.

Millions of years ago, Australia was almost completely submerged with only today's coastal areas forming a huge archipeligo. That is why there are oil deposits in the outback. The same is true for all inland oil deposits all over the world. Oil is formed from old sealife that has been compressed underground for millions of years, in much the same way coal is formed from old trees. So all the oil in the middle-east is because it was submerged in the past.

[Furunculus]

The earth was almost certainly far hotter millions of years ago, and the sea levels were much higher than they are today. Technically we are still in an ice-age, the earth is "normally" much hotter than it is now.

Millions of years ago, Australia was almost completely submerged with only today's coastal areas forming a huge archipeligo. That is why there are oil deposits in the outback. The same is true for all inland oil deposits all over the world. Oil is formed from old sealife that has been compressed underground for millions of years, in much the same way coal is formed from old trees. So all the oil in the middle-east is because it was submerged in the past.

i have a bsc in geology, so i am aware of these processes. :)

[rory_20_uk]

i have a bsc in geology, so i am aware of these processes. :)

I wish I'd done Geology...

[Furunculus]

I wish I'd done Geology...

i should have done International Politics.

[CountArach]

No one ever wishes they did history

[Louis VI the Fat]

i should have done International Politics.

That's exactly what I keep thinking when I read one of your EU posts...

[Furunculus]

No one ever wishes they did history

we are almost all of us here interested in history, its just a matter of whether we would be further interested in studying it academically.

That's exactly what I keep thinking when I read one of your EU posts...

if you were a more astute historian you would come to the opposite opinion.
besides which, i never figured out why my views on the UK's place within the EU seem so barbaric to you, after all; i have nothing against the EEC/EU, i like free trade, i like some level of harmonisation, i like cooperation where a common viewpoint is available. i simply see no need for federation, and find distasteful the dishonest drift towards federation, is that so bad?

[Louis VI the Fat]

It's just a wee little tease.


Once Brahms was send a symphony by a good friend. A budding composer. To his dismay, Brahms never spoke about it to him, not for months. Then, one day, both were walking the streets of Vienna together. There was a poor gypsy sitting on the streetcorner, playing a tune on his accordéon. 'Listen!', said Brahms, 'He's gotten hold of your symphony!'

On another occasion, Brahms was invited to the première of an exciting new work by Liszt. The entire concert hall was most excited, both by the prospect of the new work and the presence of the great Brahms. Halfway through the performance, however, the musicians and audience were greatly disturbed by a loud noise: it was Brahms, soundly asleep, snoring loudly.
Despite Brahms' claim that he was simply exhausted, many never spoke to him ever again after this affront.


By which I mean to say..erm...dunno exactly what the point is. Maybe that some people simply are the way they are. Don't take it all too personally.

[Strike For The South]

This whole conversation makes me want to waste energy. Im going to turn all the lights on in my house.

[Furunculus]

It's just a wee little tease.

Once Brahms was send a symphony by a good friend. A budding composer. To his dismay, Brahms never spoke about it to him, not for months. Then, one day, both were walking the streets of Vienna together. There was a poor gypsy sitting on the streetcorner, playing a tune on his accordéon. 'Listen!', said Brahms, 'He's gotten hold of your symphony!'

On another occasion, Brahms was invited to the première of an exciting new work by Liszt. The entire concert hall was most excited, both by the prospect of the new work and the presence of the great Brahms. Halfway through the performance, however, the musicians and audience were greatly disturbed by a loud noise: it was Brahms, soundly asleep, snoring loudly.
Despite Brahms' claim that he was simply exhausted, many never spoke to him ever again after this affront.

By which I mean to say..erm...dunno exactly what the point is. Maybe that some people simply are the way they are. Don't take it all too personally.

i'll try not to.

nice story.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

No one ever wishes they did history

That'd be me.

/I wish I did your mom.

[Papewaio]

Biogenic synthesis is certainly the main if probably only commercial source of oil.

What is interesting is the potential of bacteria deep down in the mantle being another part of the story of some of the oil. Still more of a hypothesis then a downright certainty.

I think if we could divert more oil to other industrial uses then an energy source. And more efficiently tap other sources of energy and use them more efficiently we can at least eke out enough time to get fusion working... just need about 200 years or so.

[rory_20_uk]

Animal and plant fats and esters are very close to hydrocarbons, and efficient processing can be converted into similar raw stocks for industrial use.

A better alternative is to devise different plastics that utilise properties of biological esters, phenols etc etc rather than shoe-horning them into the synthetic process.

[miotas]

Animal and plant fats and esters are very close to hydrocarbons, and efficient processing can be converted into similar raw stocks for industrial use.

A better alternative is to devise different plastics that utilise properties of biological esters, phenols etc etc rather than shoe-horning them into the synthetic process.

Fixed

[KukriKhan]

Animal and plant fats and esters are very close to hydrocarbons, and efficient processing can be converted into similar raw stocks for industrial use.

A better alternative is to devise different plastics that utilise properties of biological esters, phenols etc etc rather than shoe-horning them into the synthetic process.

I wish I'd done Chemistry.

[Papewaio]

Nah, Chemists have to many moles to be attractive.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Nah, Chemists have to many moles to be attractive.

Groan.

That produced a reaction.

[Furunculus]

CERN takes another look at Galactic Cosmic Rays:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/0...e-end-is-near/

[Ice]

I want to point something out about wind power. There is a common misconception that you can simply hook up a wind mill to a power grid and be done with it. This is very far from the truth. There are a few a factors you have to take into consideration using wind power:

1) Where is there Wind?
2) How can I transfer this power to other areas?
3) How can excess power be stored?

I'll use Michigan as an example.

One of the best places for wind power in Michigan is a small city (more like a town) called Bad Axe which sits on the upper portion of the thumb of Michigan:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_Axe,_Michigan (map included)

Bad Axe is a fairly rural place, but great for wind. So, let's say you decide to invest heavily in wind power in Bad Axe. Alright you have the energy. Now how do you transfer it? Good Question... Unforunately wind power can not be transfered using conventional power grids, so you would have to build an entirely new grid system throughout the state of Michigan to transfer power to the population centers of Detroit, Grand Rapids, Lansing...etc. Have fun with that. Not only is it extremely difficult due to the isolated nature of Bad Axe, it isn't cheap. Finally, we get to the third point: What do you do with all the excess power that wind energy produces when not being used? Unfrounately, the our current batteries do not have the level of technolgy needed to effectively store energy for a long period of the time so the energy is effectively wasted.

I just figured I throw in my two cents. I am advocate of such clean energy, but technology at this time limits our options. I'd say go nuclear.

[rory_20_uk]

There are ways to store the energy - counter weights, turbines to pump water or increase the pressure of a gas, hydrolysis of water.

[Whacker]

Beskar had a good point. If it could make it past all the stupid political BS, ITER has a huge potential to revolutionize energy production for the world. Too bad it might actually prove to be far too safe and efficient, and would put all those poor coal and oil barons right out of business.

Failing that, there are plenty of good ol' fission nuke plant concepts that are ridiculously safe and generate roughly the same amount of waste as current plants. Pebble bed reactors for example. The reason you won't see many pebble bed types at all is because they're very poor at acting as breeder reactors for weapons grade material. We gotz to have our nukuler bombz.

[Beskar]

Beskar had a good point. If it could make it past all the stupid political BS, ITER has a huge potential to revolutionize energy production for the world. Too bad it might actually prove to be far too safe and efficient, and would put all those poor coal and oil barons right out of business.

It's pretty much that holding it up, also it is the "Green Agenda" as they are being forced to funnel money into things such as solar panels and windfarms which are far cheaper to setup, but far far less efficient. If they get ITER up and running, it would decimate oil based economy as oil would only be used for things like making plastic.

[Viking]

Unforunately wind power can not be transfered using conventional power grids, so you would have to build an entirely new grid system throughout the state of Michigan to transfer power to the population centers of Detroit, Grand Rapids, Lansing...etc.

That sounds wrong to me. Never hear of similar before.

Edit:

There are ways to store the energy - counter weights, turbines to pump water or increase the pressure of a gas, hydrolysis of water.

Such a system has indeed been implemented on a Norwegian island as a pilot project.

[Ice]

That sounds wrong to me. Never hear of similar before.

Why does that sound wrong? Any engineers on this board who can verify this claim?

[Melvish]

I think that all that jazz about cars CO2 pollution is a bunch of of nonsense. Have big enough forests and CO2 will never be a problem. Global warming is just a gimmick used by government to get our attention off more pressing matter and give us the illusion they care while they can go on with their 'shady' business.

Basically we could all drive electric cars, yet if there is no trees left we're still done for because of cows farts. What we should realy worry about is NOx and SO2 (those do not come from properly equip cars) pollution that translate to acid rain that decimate forests. Water and soil pollution should be our main concern. What will we do with all the trash we are dumping in the water and burring in the soil? What to do about companies that clear entire forest and do not replant? Is our current trees replanting technique effective? What about genetically modified seeds that get sterile once grown? Is ruining (as in nothing will ever grow there for the next 100-300 years) high producing wheat fields and contaminate water on a 3:1 ratio to produce oil worth it?

Always laying everything on the shoulder of common citizens while big corporations have free reign.

[Viking]

Why does that sound wrong? Any engineers on this board who can verify this claim?

Well, I've had wind power on my curriculum; only as small portion; but the drawbacks you mention seem so huge and well worthy of inclusion in any text concerning wind power.

The only drawbacks of wind power my curriculum mentioned, IIRC, are:

* enviromental
* aesthetical

..and of course you need enough wind.

If I've understood you correctly, you said that we basically have to build things like this



all over the state again?

This NYTimes article talks about the grid system being to old to keep up with modern energy demands; but none the less, wind mills are already connected to it. Is this what you meant?

[rory_20_uk]

Overground is probably cheaper, but there's no technical reason why the cables can't be buried.

[Furunculus]

Why does that sound wrong? Any engineers on this board who can verify this claim?

therev was a der-spiegel article some time back talking about the perils faced by national grids around germany from the 'backwash' or suprlus wind-power, but i cannot find the article.

of interest:
https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/mragheb/ww...%20Systems.pdf

[Ice]

This NYTimes article talks about the grid system being to old to keep up with modern energy demands; but none the less, wind mills are already connected to it. Is this what you meant?

Yeah that's what I meant. Like I said, carrying windpower from the few places that are have a lot of wind, to places around the country which don't have a lot of wind is a challenge. Apparently you can use conventional grids to transfer such power, but not very well.

[Melvish]

Yeah that's what I meant. Like I said, carrying windpower from the few places that are have a lot of wind, to places around the country which don't have a lot of wind is a challenge. Apparently you can use conventional grids to transfer such power, but not very well.

Well we do it without problem here in Quebec and we have large number of wind turbines. We even sell the electricity to the USA.