Occultus and the hidden Factions (Discussion)

[moonburn]

what i understand as the bosphoran kingdom would be nikkaia and bizantium making a kingdom and not a schytian/hellenic faction (since the bosphorus is a strait that links the egean and the black sea) if not then my bad

[A Very Super Market]

Ack, I'm not thinking clearly.

A Crimean faction was suggested several times, and there are a few unique units based around there anyways. But I'm not sure if they were expansionist enough to warrant a faction.

[moonburn]

the schythians of mikra schytia where expansionists

i mean bronze arrow heads in the levant of schytian origin shows they where expansionists the problem is picking a region for them since they are "everywhere" from the black sea to the hyrkinian mare (colchis as them that setlement above the caucasos has them and so on)

the reason for olbia region is it´s name (mikra schytia) but to make it balanced or at least economically viable they would either have to have a 2nd region in crimea or go straight to kallatis (?)

maybe make them allies of the greeks at the start granting them trading rights with 2 ports could sufice to sustain their economical problem and they could forge a northern euxinos empire that would help them regain the steps

thing is getai and sauromatae have no direct enemies to contend with at the start giving them a small advantage of chosing their fighting grounds while historically getai thracians (altough most believe they where one and the same) hellenes schytians and plus basternae/germans(?) and even celts where all living in those regions and fending for their right to be a separate people while trying/waiting for the sauromatae onslaught as more and more schytians went to their setled cousins running away from the sauros

i believe they and the boii for their prior history influence and overall mark in the world up to 272bc have the right to be a faction with a chance to be great again far more then pergamon imho that just gave it´s lands to the romans without a fight and betrayed the rest of hellas by showing the weakness of the greeks and inviting romans into the aegean affairs wich ended with the roman conquest of hellas proper

even in eb there´s information of a schytian king taking olbia by force and making it a new "setled" home for his people up until 110bc where the king of pontus defeated them

if there´s 10 slots there are many factions deserving for many reasons their prior history and influence in the world up to the start of the eb timeframe is imho a very important reason wich include the boii (the sack of delphi the creation of galatia where all their doing) and the schytians (schytians where known for 500 years prior to eb stardate destroyed empires forged alliances fought in many wars either as allies or mercenary´s) and even tough the sauromatae where now the dominant group in the sttepes the schytians where not dead and where still the essencial horse archer known to all the hellenistic kingdoms (except perhaps for the parni/dahe bordering baktria and as)

as for them being expansionists they took greek cities they fought wars against the pontus, i aknowledge there isn´t much information about them after 272 but if eb is the write a new story of the, what if, then what if the schytians had regained the sttepes with their new knowledge of greek ecomical development (markets harbors roads) plus some good old mix of hoplitai and horse archers army

from wiki (i know i´ve been reading these forums for a year now and i know wiki is not well regarded but still easyest source to use): Second Scythian Kingdom

Scythia's social development at the end of the fifth and in the fourth century BC involved its privileged stratum in trade with Greeks, efforts to control this trade, and consequences partly stemming from these two: aggressive external policy, intensified exploitation of dependent population, progressing stratification among the nomadic rulers. Trading with Greeks also stimulated sedenterization processes. The proximity of the Greek city-states on the Black Sea coast (Pontic Olbia, Cimmerian Bosporus, Chersonesos, Sindica, Tanais) was a powerful incentive for slavery in the Scythian society, but only in one direction: the sale of slaves to Greeks, instead of use in their economy. Accordingly, the trade become a stimulus for capture of slaves as war spoils in numerous wars.

by the start of the eb time frame there´s whats called the 3rd scythian kingdom
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythia

not much info but from the info prior to the 3rd century and using the units already available in the game (maybe complement it with some type of levy spearman or just using the pontic spearman) there´s enough units to form a decent army of the steppes and a levy infantry army

with the ports on the black sea and some greek markets (perhaps even granting them the hability for stone walls in their sedentary regions) they have the gold the tactics and the manpower to be great again, they just need the leadership and a plan wich is ofc what the human player is for

schytian units:
horse archer
steppe rider
foot archer
axeman
nobles (?)

then there´s the:
heavy archer
greek hoplai
pontic spearman

plus close to the basternae (cool native troops) and to the sauromatae (their spearman could make cannon fodder or garrison units)

P.S: i´m not making a case for a new faction i´m just stating that the schytians are probably one of the 10 factions that will appear and surelly one that deserves to be included

[Alsatia]

I rmember a while back that the EB team was not going to use scythiaas a whole because it was declining during the time period. That's why they represented the Sarmatians. As far as I know, they are scythians.

Also, wikipedia is a source many here would not call reliable, simply because anyone can come in and rewrite the whole article. Find some document or a book or two and the EB team may see.

[Subotan]

Ack, I'm not thinking clearly.

A Crimean faction was suggested several times, and there are a few unique units based around there anyways. But I'm not sure if they were expansionist enough to warrant a faction.

I think they're certainly viable for a faction though. Give the Sarmatins something to do, and if naval invasions are sorted out, the Bosporan Kingdom could be quite powerful.

Also, the idea of Mikra Skythia never occurred to me. Possible, but I think the Bosporans are more likely.

[moonburn]

I rmember a while back that the EB team was not going to use scythiaas a whole because it was declining during the time period. That's why they represented the Sarmatians. As far as I know, they are scythians.

Also, wikipedia is a source many here would not call reliable, simply because anyone can come in and rewrite the whole article. Find some document or a book or two and the EB team may see.

the use of the schytians as a whole is impossible cause you can´t represent the group or else they would be a long streetching line from kallatis to the hirkanian sea cutting off hay from the sauromatae, thats why i said mikra schytia as a starting point far better. cause the schytian where mostly no longer nomads and where actually not a single political unity so the schytians of mikra schytia wich still retained some sort of nomadism where the best choice


@subotan
the way i understand bosporans (on the bosphorus strait) it makes litle sence as a faction cause on one side you have bythinia and on the other you got a greek city called bizantium both sucessors to lysander (such as pergamon)

it would make more sence for a faction an hellenic schytian faction in crimea making bundles out of the wheat market to athens and hellas proper

people mentioned scalles wich for me means a new nomadic faction or a redoing of an old one. Aniway this is just a debate the remaining slots have already been picked i think, and i think the chosen factions will be:

numidians
pergamon
(easy pickings right)
siracuse
boii
belgae
schytians
galatians
araveci
ethiopian kingdom of meroe (the land of the gold as the egitians called them)
as for the 10th no clue maybe the irish but that would make northewestern europe a bit 2 overcrowded beteween belgs casse and irish all trying a byte at the same

[bobbin]

the use of the schytians as a whole is impossible cause you can´t represent the group or else they would be a long streetching line from kallatis to the hirkanian sea cutting off hay from the sauromatae, thats why i said mikra schytia as a starting point far better. cause the schytian where mostly no longer nomads and where actually not a single political unity so the schytians of mikra schytia wich still retained some sort of nomadism where the best choice.

"Skythian" was a term used by greeks to describe many steppe peoples it didn't mean that there was a single political entity streching across all that territory, think of it more in the way "Celts" was used to describe the various tribes living across europe who had a shared culture and lauguages. Also the Skythians of Mikra Skythia were the most settled not the least.

The main argument against them I've heard of is that the Skythian Kingdom (in Mirka Skythia) was very weak at EB's start date and ceased to exist very soon after. It's a bit of a shame really as they would be a great faction to play.

@subotan
the way i understand bosporans (on the bosphorus strait) it makes litle sence as a faction cause on one side you have bythinia and on the other you got a greek city called bizantium both sucessors to lysander (such as pergamon)

it would make more sence for a faction an hellenic schytian faction in crimea making bundles out of the wheat market to athens and hellas proper

The Bosporan Kingdom was a powerful greek kingdom in what is now the Crimea, nothing to do with the Bosphorus straights where Byzantion is but it is an easy mistake to make. You could think of them as a Skythian influenced Greek faction so they fit your description pretty well.

numidians
pergamon
(easy pickings right)
siracuse
boii
belgae
schytians
galatians
araveci
ethiopian kingdom of meroe (the land of the gold as the egitians called them)
as for the 10th no clue maybe the irish but that would make northewestern europe a bit 2 overcrowded beteween belgs casse and irish all trying a byte at the same

The kingdom of Meroe wouldn't make it due to problems with the culture limit.

[A Very Super Market]

as for the 10th no clue maybe the irish but that would make northewestern europe a bit 2 overcrowded beteween belgs casse and irish all trying a byte at the same

You do realize that, according to this list, there are now 9 factions based in Asia Minor and Hellas?

[moonburn]

thanks bobin some usefull information indeed

maybe a crimean kingdom with alot of schytian influence could work better idd (as i said my bad then )

super there´s a reason why hellas and aristoteles considered it the center of the world. it´s where the best information is about the people culture and political-economical-military of this time frame

with more slot some parts will be overcrowded. there´s an high probability of 3 factions starting in iberia (maybe 4 with that illergete plea) + 2 more can eventually enter the peninsula and make it a hot spot of the game (arverni and romani) so iberia an area with 10 regions being fought over by 4 factions (maybe more) seems a bit crowded 2

besides thats list is what i would like to see/believe will show up
since a nurghian (sardinian) faction doesn´t make much sence as it can be better represented by strong eleutheroi stacks with stone forts.
i don´t believe a scandinavian faction would fair well without having to destroy the sweaboz.
a maurs kingdom would put in jeopardy the hability for numidia to press on the carthaginians

there´s that shitload of possible factions in the balkans of thracian-galo influence (a celtic/thracian kingdom could be nice to watch and play) (an illyrian faction i stll hope there will be one stoping the romans from entereing the balkans 2 soon)

anyway enough rant from me i trully believe a new horse archer faction with some proper greek teachings (economical and architectural) could make for the best underdog ever as a steppe faction with a strong economy and the hability to build stone walls could be deadly for the rest if they happened to survive the 1st turns without sucumbing to the sauro´s or the getai

[Tux]

Poor guys, the real secrets behind the ocultus sigs are similar to this:

[bobbin]

Oh man I've got to have that for my sig!


edit: Muhaaa fear the might of my Kiukīnan Gunðaz Banstijiz!!!

[Subotan]

You do realize that, according to this list, there are now 9 factions based in Asia Minor and Hellas?

Poor guys, the real secrets behind the ocultus sigs are similar to this:

[Ibrahim]

a sweboz cock?

what is that all about?

[Tux]

Ehh, an internal joke...(i prefer rooster) Guys, we got jokes, secrets, etc. so start learning modding to get it since what more could you wish for.

[Alsatia]

Ehh, an internal joke...(i prefer rooster) Guys, we got jokes, secrets, etc. so start learning modding to get it since what more could you wish for.

I really need to learn scripting or skinning.....

Or read more history!

But allt eh books in the library are all those books that are common nkowledge, some of them have misleading information (I can prove them wrong using EB!) There's nothing on the Gauls, Hai, Saka or Saba, not even much about the sucessors... All roman and greek.......

[Subotan]

Go to a real library, i.e. a University library, or a History department at a University (Or even better, a Classics department). That's where the hardcore stuff is.

[Martelus Flavius]

I really need to learn scripting or skinning.....

Or read more history!

All of them of course!

But I would suggest skinning... (We really do need skinners! )

And with more skinners EB2 will be out faster!!!

Regards

Martelvs

[Maion Maroneios]

OK, since nobody payed any attention to my post I'll give out some of my inside-information. Martelus' banner is of the Belgae.

Maion

[Alsatia]

OK, since nobody payed any attention to my post I'll give out some of my inside-information. Martelus' banner is of the Belgae.

Maion

Oh thank you!! This better not be another Moros.

But praise all the same. (I never thought i'd actually praise a hellene)

[Maion Maroneios]

I'd like my chocolate now please.

Maion

[athanaric]

Poor guys, the real secrets behind the ocultus sigs are similar to this:

Well, if that isn't the much debated Swêboz unit rooster.


I guess the joke stems from the all too common misspelling of "roster"?

[Alsatia]

Here's your balloon Maion (if i can give them)

(Yet another day i'd never thought i'd see...)

EDIT: Your'e a millionaire! You don't need one!

[Martelus Flavius]

OK, since nobody payed any attention to my post I'll give out some of my inside-information. Martelus' banner is of the Belgae.

Maion

Hum it seems a complete black backroung may have helped me more...

Regards

Martelvs

[a completely inoffensive name]

OK, since nobody payed any attention to my post I'll give out some of my inside-information. Martelus' banner is of the Belgae.

Maion

Hum it seems a complete black backroung may have helped me more...

Regards

Martelvs

Holy ****, epic win.

[moonburn]

wtf is the belgae ?

you mean the nervii of comos wich where allied with cesar and then switched to vercigentorix/ge cause suposedly titus labienos tryed to assassinate him for personal reasons ?? (or so cesar claims)

[A Very Super Market]

Therapist Joe says:

The Belgae live in modern-day Belgium and the Netherlands.

[bobbin]

It would be nice to have a Aquitanian/Vascone faction in as well. Julius Caeser described them as being one of the three peoples that made up pre-roman Gaul along with the Belgae and the Celts.

[Hax]

Execution squad dispatched.

[Christianus]

The new faction is Syracusae. 100%

[Martelus Flavius]

Holy ****, epic win.

Really? Prepare yourself to be suprized, soon...

Salve!

Martelvs