Is obesity a left-wing issue? (Query about Fox news)

[Centurion1]

Hah, if hore tore is serious he is basically saying, that it is sexist when playboy wont hire men as centerfolds. There are limits to where work discrimination applies. certain jobs are and can be legally designated as gender-specific. Mostly those that involve sex appeal. nothing wrong with that and it is not sexist in the least. The day a bi-gender porno rag gains appeal will be the day i put a bullet in my head.

[HoreTore]

Do you know what "Hooters" is?

Yes I do, and I see no reason for them to exist. And I see their very existence as proof that our society still has a long way to go.

So, employers shouldn't be allowed to hire the people who will help their business the most?

So.....

You believe that shop owners should feel free to avoid hiring gay people because the shop is in a conservative area...?

Hah, if hore tore is serious he is basically saying, that it is sexist when playboy wont hire men as centerfolds. There are limits to where work discrimination applies. certain jobs are and can be legally designated as gender-specific. Mostly those that involve sex appeal. nothing wrong with that and it is not sexist in the least. The day a bi-gender porno rag gains appeal will be the day i put a bullet in my head.

I'll happily make certain exceptions. Bars, shops and cabin crews are not on the list though. Because honestly, it's irrelevant.

[Centurion1]

Bars my friend are not irrelevant to this country and too the rest of the world. They bring in hundreds of billions of dollars a year. If you shut down bars because they were being sexist in fitting into their theme (be it hunks or babes) entire cities could be ruined ie Vegas.

People enjoy vices and hooters is definitely an innocent vice so men like pretty girls serving them food, its not like they are prostitutes or even strippers. Many people will tell you they go to hooters for the hot wings..... and they are serious

[Crazed Rabbit]

So.....

You believe that shop owners should feel free to avoid hiring gay people because the shop is in a conservative area...?

And you clearly believe in strawman arguments.

CR

[HoreTore]

And you clearly believe in strawman arguments.

....And you do not?

[Ronin]

Yes I do, and I see no reason for them to exist. And I see their very existence as proof that our society still has a long way to go.

Indeed we do....

I hope that one day we can have a bar on every corner with hot waitresses that are completely topless...this 'tight tank top' thing is for sissies...

I have a dream!!

[HoreTore]

Indeed we do....

I hope that one day we can have a bar on every corner with hot waitresses that are completely topless...this 'tight tank top' thing is for sissies...

I have a dream!!

I honestly can't see why the hotness of the waitress has anything to do with whether I go to a bar or not, because:

1. She's at work. She won't come home with me.
2. She's sober. I will be drunk. You can't hit on sober people when you're drunk, that's rule #1.
3. I will be thirsty, I will be looking for the beer.
4. With my beer goggles on, everyone is a supermodel.
5. She will be over at the beer, working. I will be at my table, drinking and chatting with friends. Contact is highly unlikely.
6. I will be looking for hot costumers, as they will also be drinking and as such could well end up in my bed later.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Why should a business-owner get told who he/she can or cannot employ? If it's a private business, then it should be up to the employer and the employer alone.

If the employer is really being bigoted then why make the government step on him, instead of just letting the people speak? Boycotts or whatever would do fine surely.

[Viking]

I honestly can't see why the hotness of the waitress has anything to do with whether I go to a bar or not, because:

1. She's at work. She won't come home with me.
2. She's sober. I will be drunk. You can't hit on sober people when you're drunk, that's rule #1.
3. I will be thirsty, I will be looking for the beer.
4. With my beer goggles on, everyone is a supermodel.
5. She will be over at the beer, working. I will be at my table, drinking and chatting with friends. Contact is highly unlikely.
6. I will be looking for hot costumers, as they will also be drinking and as such could well end up in my bed later.

I cannot see why people should bother to go to places where you may see men in shorts running around and kicking a spherical thing. I say we ban these freak shows.

[HoreTore]

Why should a business-owner get told who he/she can or cannot employ? If it's a private business, then it should be up to the employer and the employer alone.

If the employer is really being bigoted then why make the government step on him, instead of just letting the people speak? Boycotts or whatever would do fine surely.

1. Discrimination is illegal. Society is king, I won't accept having my country degenerate into dozens of petty kings doing whatever they want. I will not let peoples bigotry rule my country.
2. The power of the market is, contrary to what the market hippies say, weak. Why else do you walk around with a t-shirt made by a 7-year old slave? We buy what is offered, when forced to choose between our wallet and desire, and our ethics, we will choose the former 99% of the time.

I cannot see why people should bother to go to places where you may see men in shorts running around and kicking a spherical thing. I say we ban these freak shows.

I've been warned by the mods enough lately, I'd better not respond to that one...

[Viking]

I've been warned by the mods enough lately, I'd better not respond to that one...

Nevermind. I thought you were close to dragging taste into the discussion. Bah.

[Rhyfelwyr]

1. Discrimination is illegal. Society is king, I won't accept having my country degenerate into dozens of petty kings doing whatever they want. I will not let peoples bigotry rule my country.

Wow I have a new found libertarian steak. Anyway, would such a system where society is king and has absolute power, not be open to abuse?

2. The power of the market is, contrary to what the market hippies say, weak. Why else do you walk around with a t-shirt made by a 7-year old slave? We buy what is offered, when forced to choose between our wallet and desire, and our ethics, we will choose the former 99% of the time.

So you want the government to have the power instead of the people? In which case, what do you expect a politician to do when faced with a choice between his wallet and good ethics? Surely all parts of the developed world, whether big government or small government, abuse child labour in the developing world?

And I was genuinely asking that last question, I really do not know the answer to that...

[Meneldil]

if the french have such great taste for food then what are they doing in french restaurants, rather bland menu they all serve the same crap. Restaurants are much better here, both in quality and diversity. The only acceptable place I know in Paris is the grand louvre and I have six places vastly superior in my street alone.

If you're looking for good restaurants in Paris, then I don't know what to say

I'm not saying french food is superior to all other foods (though I think it's superior to what north-americans and britishmen call food), but we have a real food culture. Travelling all around France to try local dishes is an awesome thing to do. But then, yes, if you're eating in half-arsed restaurants that effectively serve the same crap, you won't find anything good (though still centuries ahead of anglo-saxon food).
Note that I've also been served the exact same crap in Belgium, Switzerland, Spain and your country (in typical half-arsed restaurants). I'll try your street next time.

[Fragony]

If you're looking for good restaurants in Paris, then I don't know what to say

Glad I am not imagining things, dear god terrible, really terrible everywhere. They eat it fine but not me. The food you get in the shops is terrific though.

[HoreTore]

Wow I have a new found libertarian steak. Anyway, would such a system where society is king and has absolute power, not be open to abuse?

Still as socialist as ever.

And you're forgetting the two other things I didn't mention; that of the rule of law, and respecting the minority and opposition. I am not in any way proposing a tyranny of the majority. In fact, I'm doing the opposite.

So you want the government to have the power instead of the people? In which case, what do you expect a politician to do when faced with a choice between his wallet and good ethics? Surely all parts of the developed world, whether big government or small government, abuse child labour in the developing world?

And I was genuinely asking that last question, I really do not know the answer to that...

There is no "government vs. the people". The government should be the people. That's what democracy means to me. And I want a democratic economy as well, I see no reason why the economy should be left as a dictatorship, ruled by those with money.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Still as socialist as ever.

And you're forgetting the two other things I didn't mention; that of the rule of law, and respecting the minority and opposition. I am not in any way proposing a tyranny of the majority. In fact, I'm doing the opposite.

Well the law, or respect for minorities, are all ideas implemented by a government at some point, so it will be up to the government to take them away. I guess the only way you can lay down things such as minority rights are through a constitution, but then unless you want to be like the Spartans and claim your constitution comes from the gods, at the end of the day it's just another invention of the government and can be removed by a government if they really want to.

There is no "government vs. the people". The government should be the people. That's what democracy means to me. And I want a democratic economy as well, I see no reason why the economy should be left as a dictatorship, ruled by those with money.

But is there such a thing as "the people"? One person might not want to employ X type of person, another person might not want to employ Y type of person, everyone is different. Why should anyone have the right to tell an employer what to do with his own private business, least of all some abstract idea of "the people"?


Note how in the fist part of your post I quoted, you appeal to the "liberal" part of liberal democracy, but in the second part you appeal to the "democracy" part. But, unless the people democratically choose to be liberal, then I don't think democracy is an appropriate name for the system. Just admit it's liberalism being forced on everyone, all that democracy can do is tweak the system. Maybe that is a good thing, because strictly speaking, democracy is majority rule.

[Centurion1]

Dude this thread is so off topic......

Look there are places where it stops being discrimination and it begins being common sense.

Hypothetical
i own a rickshaw company (my dream) and i am hiring a new driver
My choices are a 300 pound lard and a 180 pound olympic athlete
I choose the athlete because he is not fat. this is my sole reason, am i discriminating illegally?

[econ21]

Dude this thread is so off topic......

Indeed, but perhaps it validates my inital supposition - that (opposing) obesity is not a left wing issue.

If the debate in this thread is anything to go by, the libertarian right focus on the rights of employers to employ who they like (and so not employ the obese).

While the left focus on the rights of the workers to work without discrimination (on the grounds of being obese).

But it leaves me no wiser about why Fox News went all "shock jock" on the woman supporting the airline's refusal to put obese people on as flight attendants. I suspect it was an attack interview just for the sake of being an attack interview - to provide entertainment (heck, I guess it worked - I was a causal viewer and here I am still talking about it several days after the event).

Why they went for the woman interviewee in particular, I don't know. I can't help wondering if it was at least in part because she was young and female rather than old and balding. It's weird, but I've seen established males exhibit otherwise inexplicable hostility to bright attractive young women who seem to be getting above their station in other settings (e.g. academic seminars).

Anyway, I found it unpleasant, so this thread was partly a disguised way to vent.

[HoreTore]

Well the law, or respect for minorities, are all ideas implemented by a government at some point, so it will be up to the government to take them away. I guess the only way you can lay down things such as minority rights are through a constitution, but then unless you want to be like the Spartans and claim your constitution comes from the gods, at the end of the day it's just another invention of the government and can be removed by a government if they really want to.

That goes for every type of government. Well except anarchy I guess, where there wouldn't be one.

But is there such a thing as "the people"? One person might not want to employ X type of person, another person might not want to employ Y type of person, everyone is different. Why should anyone have the right to tell an employer what to do with his own private business, least of all some abstract idea of "the people"?

Note how in the fist part of your post I quoted, you appeal to the "liberal" part of liberal democracy, but in the second part you appeal to the "democracy" part. But, unless the people democratically choose to be liberal, then I don't think democracy is an appropriate name for the system. Just admit it's liberalism being forced on everyone, all that democracy can do is tweak the system. Maybe that is a good thing, because strictly speaking, democracy is majority rule.

Change "liberalism" with "socialism", and I'll happily agree.

I can make a compromise with social liberalism though. Just keep me away from market liberalism....

[InsaneApache]

If you want your beer and food served to you by hairy arsed men in mankinis (ala Borat) that's your choice Horetore. Me? I'd go for the 19 year old looker everytime. Taste is just personal I guess, or maybe I'm just a dirty old man. (My lifes ambition BTW)

[Furunculus]

The guest who supported the airline was arguing that a morbidly obese person would be a hindrance if there was a need for an emergency exit of the plane.

that is a false argument imo that serves no purpose but to pander to the PC consensus, that there must always appear to be a fair and equitable reason for every decision, regardless over who agrees on how "fair" and "equitable" should be defined.

morbidly obese people shouldn't be airline stewards because they would block isles full stop, making it damned inconvenient for me to go for a pee. the whole emergency thing as a justification for discrimination is a sham in which i won't participate.

[Furunculus]

I honestly can't see why the hotness of the waitress has anything to do with whether I go to a bar or not, because:

1. She's at work. She won't come home with me.
2. She's sober. I will be drunk. You can't hit on sober people when you're drunk, that's rule #1.
3. I will be thirsty, I will be looking for the beer.
4. With my beer goggles on, everyone is a supermodel.
5. She will be over at the beer, working. I will be at my table, drinking and chatting with friends. Contact is highly unlikely.
6. I will be looking for hot costumers, as they will also be drinking and as such could well end up in my bed later.

so because the hotness of a barmaid is not important to you, its ok to ban bars from choosing hot barmaids even though they consider it a very important factor to their clientele?

[Fragony]

If you want your beer and food served to you by hairy arsed men in mankinis (ala Borat) that's your choice Horetore. Me? I'd go for the 19 year old looker everytime. Taste is just personal I guess, or maybe I'm just a dirty old man. (My lifes ambition BTW)

heh I feel like a dirty old man having a guilty pleassure looking at the 19 year old hotties and I am 32, for some reason they seem so young. Odd. I am getting old.

[rory_20_uk]

Why just obesity? I am sure that with effort the following groups could be made safe to work on a plane...

• those in wheelchairs (just widen the isles)
• the registered blind high (contrast lighting / bigger signs everywhere)
• Severe respiratory or cardiac (disease personal oxygen supplies)

Are all going to have rights to be basketball players for example - don't let the disability that they're crap at basketball get in the way and they need support.

I can't be a fighter pilot. My eyesight isn't good enough. Can I sue against this discrimination?

Unlike many of the other conditions I've mentioned all can loose weight with restricted calorific intake.

Titillating young women are attractive. No hot 19 year old looked at me when I was 19 - and OK the same is probably true now But they are either doing it as they want to or as they view the pay as sufficient. Just like any other job really.

[Husar]

Why just obesity? I am sure that with effort the following groups could be made safe to work on a plane...

• those in wheelchairs (just widen the isles)
• the registered blind high (contrast lighting / bigger signs everywhere)
• Severe respiratory or cardiac (disease personal oxygen supplies)

Are all going to have rights to be basketball players for example - don't let the disability that they're crap at basketball get in the way and they need support.

I can't be a fighter pilot. My eyesight isn't good enough. Can I sue against this discrimination?

If we ignore wheelchair basketball teams, then I agree with you.

[Fragony]

You are German you are not supposed to be hilarious.

[HoreTore]

so because the hotness of a barmaid is not important to you, its ok to ban bars from choosing hot barmaids even though they consider it a very important factor to their clientele?

Yes.

Looks should not have anything to say when applying for a job.

Why just obesity? I am sure that with effort the following groups could be made safe to work on a plane...

• those in wheelchairs (just widen the isles)
• the registered blind high (contrast lighting / bigger signs everywhere)
• Severe respiratory or cardiac (disease personal oxygen supplies)

Are all going to have rights to be basketball players for example - don't let the disability that they're crap at basketball get in the way and they need support.

I can't be a fighter pilot. My eyesight isn't good enough. Can I sue against this discrimination?

Unlike many of the other conditions I've mentioned all can loose weight with restricted calorific intake.

Titillating young women are attractive. No hot 19 year old looked at me when I was 19 - and OK the same is probably true now But they are either doing it as they want to or as they view the pay as sufficient. Just like any other job really.

Nice try Rory, but sorry, logistics and looks are two different things.

[Centurion1]

Hore tore i want you to answer my rickshaw question. I believe the answer is pretty much common sense (and it doesn't involve 19 year old babes)

[HoreTore]

Hore tore i want you to answer my rickshaw question. I believe the answer is pretty much common sense (and it doesn't involve 19 year old babes)

I have no idea what a rickshaw is.

[InsaneApache]

A rickshaw is something that evil capitalists are literally dragged about by the poor downtrodden workers. I like them.