Fallout 3 discussion

[Lemur]

It's just a game ... or is it?

[rasoforos]

Fallout 3 made me nostalgic about Fallout 1 and 2...

...which made me play Fallout 2...

...where I play a slaver lesbian than sold her wife to slavery

<---- Which is why Bethesda can never make a fallout game.

When a game makes you quit playing it to finish its 11 year old predecessor then...well...

...it isnt Fallout. It is just a nice game.

[Beskar]

I got Fallout 3 (latest DLC and patched, Steam version) and I was wondering, what mods are highly recommended and rather simple to install to expand my game experience.

[Greyblades]

Any mods that removes that green overlay.

[Beskar]

Hah, I like the idea of that. I am going to use it.

[Zenicetus]

Some screenshots are up at the main Bethesda/Fallout site for the Mothership Zeta DLC, which I think is coming at the end of the month.

On the one hand, that type of environment with lots of corridor crawling is my least favorite in the F3 game. I prefer the open spaces of the Wasteland, and that's one reason I enjoyed the Point Lookout DLC. The plot sounds like it will be fairly linear too, unless the ship is humongous and allows some exploration and side plots.

On the other hand, okay... a few cool new weapons, some new armor types. Maybe it'll be fun. Based on the screenies, it looks like you won't be stomping around in power armor (probably stripped of armor and weapons as part of the abduction scenario).

I can't say I love the look of the spaceship interiors. Why would an alien mothership use a 1930's German industrial design motif? I'm almost expecting to see rivets everywhere. I was hoping the Bethesda designers would go nuts doing a really weird-looking environments, but this just doesn't look all that different from the other F3 interiors.

[Monk]

Point Lookout...

Well I just finished playing through PL and I have to say, wow. That was probably the blandest DLC i've ever played. My own belief about DLC is that it's a great way to expand upon the game world by throwing you into a unique situation not seen inside the original game. It's like adding another sandbox, inside the sandbox.. but this one has, say, ice cream in it!

Point Lookout is not that kind of DLC. It just adds nothing new, plain and simple. Sure, some of the enemy types are nice, but there's just so little to do that it blows my mind. I've heard there's lots of hidden side quests but frankly who cares? The moment i saw a Feral Ghoul Roamer kicking around near the Cathedral I knew I was in trouble. Yeah, haven't seen one of those before. The enemies who are unique felt like they were tacked on at the last minute for interesting screen grabs. You encounter the new enemies so rarely that if you do all the main quests you will only run into the new enemies a handful of times. I'm not joking.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I mean really, Mirelurks? Ghouls? I could be fighting those in DC. I came here for irradiated backwoods brawling and I get Mirelurks!?

The difficulty was a roller coaster, up one moment and down the next. I went in at around level 12 with a decent enough arsenal and found that some of the enemies were quite tough to bring down, while the new weapons could kill me in five shots! Unfortunately Point Lookout practically throws Stimpacks at you, I don't think i dropped below having 20 once. So while the enemies hit hard and provided a quick bloody nose, when I realized I'd never run low on healing it became trivial.

The main quests...I don't like them. One made literally zero sense as to why my Vault Dweller would want to even do it. It's called the Velvet Curtain and.. well...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

You find a dead Chinese spy's mission logs in a hotel room and suddenly decide to complete his mission despite the fact that he's been dead for two hundred years. Even forgetting that he's dead, why would I want to help this guy? The few communist characters who I'd met up to this point have wanted nothing more of me than to die, so why am I helping this guy out - exactly? Sure it all leads to a nice weapon. But the question remains: WHY. Sure I can finish this guy's 200 year old mission by why in the world would I want to in the first place? I don't even know there's a reward involved in the game's continuity, i'm just doing it.

As for The Pitt, I won't comment to much on it other than saying:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I didn't appreciate the morality trap that you walk into.

[Veho Nex]

Ahhh the pitt choices....

As for point lookout, despite the times where I could swear I was back doing Agatha's vault quest and the shroom experience, don't get me started on that thing.

As for any new content, so much of it made little sense including what monk touched up on.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Like the light house, the book of mauahdyasghda or how ever it's pronounced. It is by far the worst add on to date. There are little to no new weapons, though the Lever action seems to be in great supply.(They were in the original fallout 3 just hard to find). Also the new inbred back water slobs where the biggest challenge. They seemed to have incredible life resilience strength and to top it all off, would notice me in stealth but I could walk right by them sometimes and have it result in nothing at all.

[Zenicetus]

Well, I enjoyed PL, but I can see where it wouldn't be everyone's cup of radioactive tea, and it did have some weak plots in some of the side quests.

About that Velvet Curtain quest and the "little to no new weapons"...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The unique rifle you get at the end of that quest is one of the two best conventional rifles in the game. I think it's worth having, but then I'm a fan of rifles for roleplay reasons (it fits my idea of the Vault Dweller better than stomping around in power armor and energy weapons). It doesn't hit quite as hard as Lincoln's Repeater, but it crits much higher, uses fewer action points in V.A.T.S., and it uses the much more common 10mm ammo. I never use machine guns or heavy weapons, so I always have more 10mm than I know what to do with. It does have one drawback: it can only be repaired with lever-action rifles from the PL zone. Still, I think it's a pretty nice weapon if you're into the conventional arms.

[Monk]

Well, I enjoyed PL, but I can see where it wouldn't be everyone's cup of radioactive tea, and it did have some weak plots in some of the side quests.

About that Velvet Curtain quest and the "little to no new weapons"...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The unique rifle you get at the end of that quest is one of the two best conventional rifles in the game. I think it's worth having, but then I'm a fan of rifles for roleplay reasons (it fits my idea of the Vault Dweller better than stomping around in power armor and energy weapons). It doesn't hit quite as hard as Lincoln's Repeater, but it crits much higher, uses fewer action points in V.A.T.S., and it uses the much more common 10mm ammo. I never use machine guns or heavy weapons, so I always have more 10mm than I know what to do with. It does have one drawback: it can only be repaired with lever-action rifles from the PL zone. Still, I think it's a pretty nice weapon if you're into the conventional arms.

Ah yes... the new weapons.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I'd be lying if I said i didn't enjoy them, the lever action rifles are a great addition to the game. I had never gotten Lincoln's Repeater in DC so getting my hands on a less powerful version was a definite bonus for me. The Backwater rifle, the quest reward from the Velvet Curtain, is a huge part of my arsenal now. I just wish the way I got it made a little more sense for continuity's sake.

[Veho Nex]

Problem for me was I don't use rifles. I have my Machine Pistol and my .45. Those are all I need fore 90% of the quest and exploring. I never seem to run out of ammo for either.

[Beskar]

I used the sniper rifle, till I swapped for the Gauss Gun, because it was really taking its toil on dealing any real damage, and now, even the Gauss Rifle isn't doing much. Takes like 7 shots to take down a super mutant brute, and it is a real killer if you use VATS. The knock back from the gun is great, but if it pushes them behind an object while in VATS, VATS just continues and it wastes ammo.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Point Lookout...

Well I just finished playing through PL and I have to say, wow. That was probably the blandest DLC i've ever played. My own belief about DLC is that it's a great way to expand upon the game world by throwing you into a unique situation not seen inside the original game. It's like adding another sandbox, inside the sandbox.. but this one has, say, ice cream in it!

Point Lookout is not that kind of DLC. It just adds nothing new, plain and simple. Sure, some of the enemy types are nice, but there's just so little to do that it blows my mind. I've heard there's lots of hidden side quests but frankly who cares? The moment i saw a Feral Ghoul Roamer kicking around near the Cathedral I knew I was in trouble. Yeah, haven't seen one of those before. The enemies who are unique felt like they were tacked on at the last minute for interesting screen grabs. You encounter the new enemies so rarely that if you do all the main quests you will only run into the new enemies a handful of times. I'm not joking.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I mean really, Mirelurks? Ghouls? I could be fighting those in DC. I came here for irradiated backwoods brawling and I get Mirelurks!?

The difficulty was a roller coaster, up one moment and down the next. I went in at around level 12 with a decent enough arsenal and found that some of the enemies were quite tough to bring down, while the new weapons could kill me in five shots! Unfortunately Point Lookout practically throws Stimpacks at you, I don't think i dropped below having 20 once. So while the enemies hit hard and provided a quick bloody nose, when I realized I'd never run low on healing it became trivial.

The main quests...I don't like them. One made literally zero sense as to why my Vault Dweller would want to even do it. It's called the Velvet Curtain and.. well...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

You find a dead Chinese spy's mission logs in a hotel room and suddenly decide to complete his mission despite the fact that he's been dead for two hundred years. Even forgetting that he's dead, why would I want to help this guy? The few communist characters who I'd met up to this point have wanted nothing more of me than to die, so why am I helping this guy out - exactly? Sure it all leads to a nice weapon. But the question remains: WHY. Sure I can finish this guy's 200 year old mission by why in the world would I want to in the first place? I don't even know there's a reward involved in the game's continuity, i'm just doing it.

As for The Pitt, I won't comment to much on it other than saying:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I didn't appreciate the morality trap that you walk into.

Well I would have to disagree with you on the Velvet Curtain, after fulfilling your fathers mission it doesn't really make sense to anything else beside (IMO) head up north to the commonwealth and find the scientific paradise and hopefully join it as Doctor Li does in the Broken Steel expansion. Unless your character is supposed to be an adventurous person which validates any side quest they give you, because in a post apocalyptic world you have two choices to live your life, find a place safe and secure (in this case you know of the commonwealth by the time you finish activating project purity and could probably join it) and try to live your life in peace or go out and explore the world and fill your time by going on adventures such as completing an old Chinese spy's mission, I mean in that situation where the U.S. and China as we know it has been gone for 200 years why not? You say all Communist people you come across try to kill you so why would you help them, but at this point everyone connected to it is dead, it wouldn't help anyone and you can't spend one in game day without someone trying to kill you anyway. It's an exciting adventure though and there is no T.V., movies or books for you to be spending your time with anyway.

I am guessing this dilemma of "not making any sense" is why they made your character die in the first place and changed it only because enough people complained about not being able to continue on in an open sandbox after that.

Also for the Pitt, I absolutely loved the morality trap they give you. I love any RPG that has options in shades of gray instead of black and white (save slaves and give cure=hero help slavers=bad), it makes for a very unrealistic world which is completely opposite of what the Fallout world really is, it's not black and white but shades of gray that would be prevalent in a world of people doing horrible things just to survive another day. It's probably why I also connected more with KOTOR 2 then the first.

[Zenicetus]

I agree with the previous post about the Vault Dweller's motives. If you didn't go north to the Commonwealth, and the Brotherhood after Broken Steel is still treating you like a second-class hired gunslinger (I really hate those guys at this point)... then you're just still exploring to see what excitement and loot is out there. This feeds into the next and final DLC (Mothership Zeta), where you're still just wandering around the Wasteland looking for adventure.

[Monk]

Well I would have to disagree with you on the Velvet Curtain, after fulfilling your fathers mission it doesn't really make sense to anything else beside (IMO) head up north to the commonwealth and find the scientific paradise and hopefully join it as Doctor Li does in the Broken Steel expansion. Unless your character is supposed to be an adventurous person which validates any side quest they give you, because in a post apocalyptic world you have two choices to live your life, find a place safe and secure (in this case you know of the commonwealth by the time you finish activating project purity and could probably join it) and try to live your life in peace or go out and explore the world and fill your time by going on adventures such as completing an old Chinese spy's mission, I mean in that situation where the U.S. and China as we know it has been gone for 200 years why not? You say all Communist people you come across try to kill you so why would you help them, but at this point everyone connected to it is dead, it wouldn't help anyone and you can't spend one in game day without someone trying to kill you anyway. It's an exciting adventure though and there is no T.V., movies or books for you to be spending your time with anyway.

Not true! There are certainly places in the capital wasteland where you can find chinese ghouls who will shoot you on sight. There's even a radio broadcast that they keep going. Explore the DC ruins near Arlington to find out their story, i won't spoil it for you.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

For reference.

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Mama_Dolce%27s

I am guessing this dilemma of "not making any sense" is why they made your character die in the first place and changed it only because enough people complained about not being able to continue on in an open sandbox after that.

It could have made perfect sense if I knew there was a reward going into it, but I didn't. I was just going through the motions because i knew outside of the game there would be compensation. Inside there was no real sign that this was nothing more than a waste of time.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

In fact, now that I think about it I really don't recall any sort of talk of compensation in the quest. Could be wrong, but all i remember is it talking about getting "extraction orders" when i was done. The reward you do get is not at all related to the quest, all the quest does is put you in the right spot at the right time to see a nice rifle sitting on someone shelf.

Also for the Pitt, I absolutely loved the morality trap they give you. I love any RPG that has options in shades of gray instead of black and white (save slaves and give cure=hero help slavers=bad), it makes for a very unrealistic world which is completely opposite of what the Fallout world really is, it's not black and white but shades of gray that would be prevalent in a world of people doing horrible things just to survive another day. It's probably why I also connected more with KOTOR 2 then the first.

I'm all for shades of gray but when you throw a curve that late in a quest progression without giving any indication it's coming it doesn't count as a good plot twist for me. If I had no way of figuring things out for myself then it's nothing more than a beginner's trap. I understand fully what they went for, it's just executed horribly.

It's not that I didn't enjoy the DLCs, it's just I took issue with many of their plot choices. Mainly because i've seen much better within the same game. If you take it for what it is, Fallout 3 trying to be a sandbox then it's perfectly acceptable. However that is exactly why I took issue with it, it breaks the immersion factor that Fallout tries very hard to maintain. I still spent enough time in the swamp to get the Bog Walker achievement, so is it nitpicking? Possibly. It's simply something that I think hinders Pitt and Point Lookout, they could have been much better than they are.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Not true! There are certainly places in the capital wasteland where you can find chinese ghouls who will shoot you on sight. There's even a radio broadcast that they keep going. Explore the DC ruins near Arlington to find out their story, i won't spoil it for you.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

For reference.

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Mama_Dolce%27s

It could have made perfect sense if I knew there was a reward going into it, but I didn't. I was just going through the motions because i knew outside of the game there would be compensation. Inside there was no real sign that this was nothing more than a waste of time.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

In fact, now that I think about it I really don't recall any sort of talk of compensation in the quest. Could be wrong, but all i remember is it talking about getting "extraction orders" when i was done. The reward you

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

do get is not at all related to the quest, all the quest does is put you in the right spot at the right time to see a nice rifle sitting on someone shelf.

I'm all for shades of gray but when you throw a curve that late in a quest progression without giving any indication it's coming it doesn't count as a good plot twist for me. If I had no way of figuring things out for myself then it's nothing more than a beginner's trap. I understand fully what they went for, it's just executed horribly.

It's not that I didn't enjoy the DLCs, it's just I took issue with many of their plot choices. Mainly because i've seen much better within the same game. If you take it for what it is, Fallout 3 trying to be a sandbox then it's perfectly acceptable. However that is exactly why I took issue with it, it breaks the immersion factor that Fallout tries very hard to maintain. I still spent enough time in the swamp to get the Bog Walker achievement, so is it nitpicking? Possibly. It's simply something that I think hinders Pitt and Point Lookout, they could have been much better than they are.

I have been to Mama Dolce's but that is mostly likely a separate group on a different mission then the dead Chinese operatives you come across in point Lookout. What I mean by connected I mean the Chinese government is likely completely destroyed with perhaps a Enclave like remnant which is more likely to be interested in retaking and rebuilding China then in completing some 200 year old mission.

It is supposed to make sense in the way I described in my above post where your character is not doing it for compensation but in the thrill of having an adventure, otherwise the vast majority of side quests don't make sense without injecting some imagination in there.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I think it would have been ruined if they showed you the curve ball ahead of time. I think the impact of making a choice really hits home when it is shown to you when you are least expecting it, which is really how life is. It really wouldn't seem realistic if the slave leader told you, a "good guy" that the cure was a baby before you saw it yourself otherwise you would not likely do it in the first place. The dialog options after taking the baby to the slave leader reveal that your character is not ok with the sudden revelation but will continue on the path since he has gotten to this point already. I agree there it could have definitely been done better, but in my opinion to get both the surprise and the ability to sense that something is not what it seems with this "cure" it would make it necessary for them to scatter really nonsensical pieces of information that make partial sense up until you see the baby where you get that feeling of "I knew there was something off." but still are wow'd by the twist, which is probably more time consuming in terms of writing the script.

I agree completely with your last paragraph.
For me I really thought that covering areas such as the Pitt in just 3-5 hours ruins the region, because it's such a large city that has the opportunity to be another whole game on itself but is kind of dumbed down for the sake of adding on a new and different region to an all ready large game, which definitely does hurt the immersion.

[Monk]

Hmm, point taken though I still find it a bit lazy on the writer's behalf. I just kept thinking to myself "Come on Bethesda you're better than this" as I was doing the quest.

I agree completely with your last paragraph.
For me I really thought that covering areas such as the Pitt in just 3-5 hours ruins the region, because it's such a large city that has the opportunity to be another whole game on itself but is kind of dumbed down for the sake of adding on a new and different region to an all ready large game, which definitely does hurt the immersion.

Well at least we can agree on something.

I just finished Broken Steel last night and I have to say it's my favorite DLC thus far (haven't played Anchorage but it looked terrible). I only had one bad thing to say about it really and, again, it comes back to plot points. It was so trivial though that it in no way hurt my enjoyment of the content so I'll let it pass. As for an ending it does its job while keeping the world open for exploration and that's really all you can ask for in a sandbox.

Think I am done with Fallout for a while, though. I pushed the game passed 1000 gamerscore (first game i've done that with, gotten close with some but never hit the 1k mark) and satisfied my need to kill some muties. I also kept Dogmeat alive through it all this time, which was no easy feat!

[frogbeastegg]

Please remember to use spoiler tags!

[spoil ]text[/spoil ]

[a completely inoffensive name]

Sorry! Got too caught up trying to keep track of my large post.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Hmm, point taken though I still find it a bit lazy on the writer's behalf. I just kept thinking to myself "Come on Bethesda you're better than this" as I was doing the quest.



Well at least we can agree on something.

I just finished Broken Steel last night and I have to say it's my favorite DLC thus far (haven't played Anchorage but it looked terrible). I only had one bad thing to say about it really and, again, it comes back to plot points. It was so trivial though that it in no way hurt my enjoyment of the content so I'll let it pass. As for an ending it does its job while keeping the world open for exploration and that's really all you can ask for in a sandbox.

Think I am done with Fallout for a while, though. I pushed the game passed 1000 gamerscore (first game i've done that with, gotten close with some but never hit the 1k mark) and satisfied my need to kill some muties. I also kept Dogmeat alive through it all this time, which was no easy feat!

Anchorage is the worst of them all, all it does is give a good impression of what the Chinese forces were back during the war. However there is information to be had about the simulation that the general you come across in the simulation commissioned the simulation in real life and rewrote it a thousand times making it unrealistic as to how it actually played out, so I guess with most insights into the larger world you come across, it needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

If you are planning on not playing Fallout for a while I would advise you to at least power through Anchorage and wait until Mothership Zeta (the last DLC) comes out in early August. From the screen shots and info released I am very hopeful that this one will be the best. You can already see the entire world in one of the screenshots as the character travels the space ship traveling through space. Also it was revealed that significant people from Earth's past will be also held captive on the ship, which you can elicit help from, which I have interpreted as some exposition on the world before the war or at least creating a connection between Fallout 3 and its predecessors with some cameo appearances.

[John the Mad]

FO3 wasn't a bad game but neither was it a good one.

It really did play like oblivion with guns.

I'd give it a 5/10.

They did all of the crappy Oblivion stuff while trying to make it a real fallout game.

A B- for effort and a C+ for execution.

The really funny thing was reading their forums and everyone was complaining that they couldn't max out(sigh).

Bethsoft needs to decide if its making games to please a younger or older crowd.

[White_eyes:D]

Bethsoft needs to decide if its making games to please a younger or older crowd.

Bethsoft did the best they could with the game Personally, I am surprised it sold as well as it did....with how much people complain

The bottom line is if it sells......but I think they did a good job, mostly

[a completely inoffensive name]

With all the complaints the game is still the greatest of 2008. I give it a solid 9/10.

[Lemur]

So I finally broke down and bought a couple of DLCs through Games for Windows Live. Two thoughts:

1. Games for Windows Live is not ready for retail. If it were open-source software the version number would be 0.3.
2. Four support calls later, still can't get the content to show up in the game. Unforgivable. I will never say a mean thing about Steam again.

[Beskar]

I had no problem with it in the game. Did you download it and which DLC are you on about? You have to go to the areas to get them.

[Lemur]

I have the retail version of the game, patched to 1.6. I picked up all of the DLCs except for the Alaska one, which seemed rather thin. I'm on support call to GFWL number five, and trust me, there are real problems.

I know all about going to special areas to get the missions, but thank your for pointing this out.

I've been all over the support boards trying to find a fix. If they would just release a manual download for the 1.7 patch, I'd be oh-so-much-closer to having this work, but it's only through GFWL, for reasons that passeth understanding.

By the way, the GFWL support number is a well-guarded secret. Microsoft's main support line claims it does not exist, and it's listed nowhere on the GFWL site. I'll let you in on the magic: (877) 274-4349.

-edit-

And I finally solved the "patch to 1.7" problem. I had a hunch IE8 was the culprit and I was right. (My hint was the fact that you cannot buy "points" with IE8, a known compatibility probme with GFWL). I uninstaleld IE8, downloaded and installed a copy of IE7, and was able to get GFWL to patch F3 without crashing. Man, this GFWL is some touchy, unstable tech.

[Beskar]

It is really weird, I had absolutely no problems at all. Though I do own the Steam version of the game. What is the nature of the errors? I am truly curious.

[Lemur]

It is really weird, I had absolutely no problems at all. Though I do own the Steam version of the game. What is the nature of the errors? I am truly curious.

That's the key; you're using Steam. Which is a robust, mature service. I changed out my mobo, moved everything onto a new drive with a new drive letter, and Steam still fired up immediately. That's hardcore.

GFWL follows the Microsoft philosophy where everything is dependent on everything else. So the entire GFWL interface is a subset of Internet Explorer. And I knew from previous wrangling that IE8 does not play well with the GFWL service. Hence my hack, which works.

The problem was that when GFWL attempted to update F3 from 1.6 to 1.7 it would hang at 99%. If you could not complete the update, you could not see your DLC. And in fact GFWL would deny you the ability to play the game if it could not update. Stalemate.

Everyone who has reported no problems is using ... Steam.

Like I said, I'll never say a mean thing about Steam again. For at least the rest of the day. Okay, for an hour.

[Zenicetus]

The problem was that when GFWL attempted to update F3 from 1.6 to 1.7 it would hang at 99%. If you could not complete the update, you could not see your DLC. And in fact GFWL would deny you the ability to play the game if it could not update. Stalemate.

I ran into a similar problem with one of the DLC's, I don't remember which. I'm using the box/DVD version of the game.

IIRC, I fixed it by shutting down the game and GFWL, then going to the Bethesda web site and downloading the latest F3 patch and installing it manually. Once GFWL recognized the current version, it would install and run the DLC content.

[Monk]

I ran into a similar problem with one of the DLC's, I don't remember which. I'm using the box/DVD version of the game.

IIRC, I fixed it by shutting down the game and GFWL, then going to the Bethesda web site and downloading the latest F3 patch and installing it manually. Once GFWL recognized the current version, it would install and run the DLC content.

Yup, this is the only way i could play the DLCs. Patching inside of GFWL is completely broken, you have to install the patch manually through an .exe from bethesda