Naval withdrawls...

[Obadiah]

I thought I remember this being discussed, but couldn't find the thread...

My 3 frigates attacked by far superior force. I flee to avoid fight. They pursue, so I'm forced to engage, after minor but-kicking, I instruct the 3 to withdrawl. The unit cards show white flags, they turn, outrun enemy, reach the perimeter, battle over, they survived. Then, on strategy map, I see my naval icon go down into the sea. No survivors, navy lost. WTF?? Would it have been different if I hadn't tried to flee at the first attack, but had engaged, and then withdrawn?

[Slaists]

I thought I remember this being discussed, but couldn't find the thread...

My 3 frigates attacked by far superior force. I flee to avoid fight. They pursue, so I'm forced to engage, after minor but-kicking, I instruct the 3 to withdrawl. The unit cards show white flags, they turn, outrun enemy, reach the perimeter, battle over, they survived. Then, on strategy map, I see my naval icon go down into the sea. No survivors, navy lost. WTF?? Would it have been different if I hadn't tried to flee at the first attack, but had engaged, and then withdrawn?

If I understand you correctly, this was the second engagement for the same fleet where in the first engagement you declined the fight and fled instead (on the strategy map). So, by the time your fleet was attacked the second time, it had no move points left. In that case, fleeing on the tactical map will not save you. Unfortunately.

Probably, CA could have implemented it better: so that the player can CHOOSE where the unit fleeing the engagement is placed so it still can have move points left after fleeing.

[Obadiah]

Thanks-

yes, you understood correctly. The implication is, if you're totally out-gunned, ACCEPT the combat on strategic map, then withdraw on tactical map, and you'll at least survive for another turn. Right?

[Hooahguy]

if you can get to a friendly port in one turn then youre safe. they cant attack you. but they can blockade you, but then you can use the time to bring up reinforcements.

[Slaists]

Thanks-

yes, you understood correctly. The implication is, if you're totally out-gunned, ACCEPT the combat on strategic map, then withdraw on tactical map, and you'll at least survive for another turn. Right?

Unfortunately, if you withdraw on the tactical map (while having campaign map move points), your fleet will still end up running like a headless chicken on the campaign map. So, if the enemy will have sufficient move points left to reach the new location of your fleet you'll still end up having it sunk. Of course, if you damage the AI ships considerably before fleeing the AI might decide not to pursue.

if you can get to a friendly port in one turn then youre safe. they cant attack you. but they can blockade you, but then you can use the time to bring up reinforcements.

As Hooahguy implied, if you have a friendly port near-by your fleet is likely to run for the cover of the port; it's likely, but does not happen always. Since your fleet did not run for the port originally, I assume none were near-by. Unfortunately, ETW does not allow ships to anchor in friendly, allied ports. That's how it was done in real life actually (and some other games such as CIV IV).

[Obadiah]

Isn't it also kinda of tilted in AI's favor, that when AI ships flee (either before battle or post-defeat), they always flee beyond range of pursuit, but in reverse situation, AI fleet always seems to have sufficient move-points to catch you and force a confrontation??? Jeez, I'm kinda steamed, b'c it forces you to fight to the death in all battles you don't initiate. There should be some middle ground. At least some of the time...

[Fisherking]

When faced with an unequal battle, one you are sure to lose, just remember you can run and try to run out the clock with your last ship at any rate.

If you don’t have the timer set to expire you can do that before entering the battle by hitting the escape key. The menu will come up and you can make adjustments in your settings. Either that or exit to desktop and play the turn over.

[Slaists]

Isn't it also kinda of tilted in AI's favor, that when AI ships flee (either before battle or post-defeat), they always flee beyond range of pursuit, but in reverse situation, AI fleet always seems to have sufficient move-points to catch you and force a confrontation??? Jeez, I'm kinda steamed, b'c it forces you to fight to the death in all battles you don't initiate. There should be some middle ground. At least some of the time...

It depends on what campaign difficulty level you're playing. On VH campaign difficulty, the AI gets considerably more move points than the player. Given that, playing on VH difficulty, I still can out-run the AI most of the time. However, there are times when I'm not that lucky.


The key (with a weak fleet) is to place your fleet so, that the threatening AI fleet has to expend most of its move points to get to it in the first attack. Once your fleet retreats from the first attack, the AI will not have sufficient points to carry out the second strike. On the other hand, if you place your fleet close to the AI, it is very likely to strike you twice, if you retreat.

Of course, there is never a guarantee, there is no 'third' fleet lurking somewhere close to where your fleeing ships will end up after retreating...

Another technique (I use this if I need to transport troops, but I do not have a strong fleet to escort) is to surround (at a distance) the cargo ship you want to protect by 3-4 cheap single ships (like light galleys). If the AI strikes, it will strike one of the outer ships first. You can make that ship retreat from the battle and let it run wherever (that's why it was a cheap ship). From that point, 1) AI can pursue your fleeing fleet; which is fine since you'll have protected your precious cargo in the middle; 2) AI can attack the cargo ship.

If #2 happens, you can retreat with the cargo ship, and the AI will be unlikely to have sufficient move points to pursue you since each attack takes out substantial chunk of the move points (on top of what would be spent to cover the distance).

When faced with an unequal battle, one you are sure to lose, just remember you can run and try to run out the clock with your last ship at any rate.

If you don’t have the timer set to expire you can do that before entering the battle by hitting the escape key. The menu will come up and you can make adjustments in your settings. Either that or exit to desktop and play the turn over.

It is a very boring technique though. If you use this, make sure you set the clock to the minimum timer (0.5 hour I think).

[jsberry]

Isn't it also kinda of tilted in AI's favor, that when AI ships flee (either before battle or post-defeat), they always flee beyond range of pursuit, but in reverse situation, AI fleet always seems to have sufficient move-points to catch you and force a confrontation??? Jeez, I'm kinda steamed, b'c it forces you to fight to the death in all battles you don't initiate. There should be some middle ground. At least some of the time...

My experience is the opposite. I have never seen an enemy fleet (or army) flee. I did not think it was an option for them. Thus, the mechanics work for the player.

[Slaists]

My experience is the opposite. I have never seen an enemy fleet (or army) flee. I did not think it was an option for them. Thus, the mechanics work for the player.

The ETW AI does not know how to retreat. However, fleets that are defeated do flee on the campaign map (if they have sufficient number of people surviving the rout and have remaining move points).

[miotas]

I'm not sure if it's the same in ETW, but in the previous titles, if you enter the battle and then just tell your forces to withdraw, they will run further away from the enemy then if you just clicked the retreat button without entering the battle. So you might want to try just entering the battle, lining up your forces near the edge of the map, and hitting retreat.

[peacemaker]

I'm not sure if it's the same in ETW, but in the previous titles, if you enter the battle and then just tell your forces to withdraw, they will run further away from the enemy then if you just clicked the retreat button without entering the battle. So you might want to try just entering the battle, lining up your forces near the edge of the map, and hitting retreat.

That's pretty much what happened, the fleet escaped unharmed on the battle map but on the campaign map the fleet was out of move points. The battle was considered a loss and therefore the fleet was sunk.

[Didz]

That's pretty much what happened, the fleet escaped unharmed on the battle map but on the campaign map the fleet was out of move points. The battle was considered a loss and therefore the fleet was sunk.

I've minotored this over several campaigns and as far as I can see its pure chance.

I've had fleets escape multiple attacks unscathed, and others that sink on the first attmpt to decline a battle. Its just another example of a broken game mechanism.

In my opinion ships should always be able to evade battle as long as their speed allows them to outpace the fastest ship in the enemy fleet (assuming of course that ships are first modelled correctly on their historic counterparts). Likewise ships that escape a battle afloat should always remain aflot after they have escaped. It's up to the attacker to ensure that it has the ships necessary to catch its prey.

Plus, All evading units land and naval should be retreated in a direction chosen by their owning faction.