Change they can believe in - An end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[Jolt]

Given your closing personal statement you've taken just about any opposite view and labeled it "criminal" based on your opinion that it is not thier land. You've justified it by making the claim that Israel dosent have the ability to extend good will, and its "proven" because they are engaged in a criminal activity.

So if one were to claim that the lands are Isreali's, that they have shown good will by allowing a hostile people to squat there and that it is thier right to build what ever they want on thier land, you have essentially disqualified that argument before it could be made.

The opinions you claim you wanted to hear, did you just want affirmation of your position? With the ending qualifier you left the reader its hard to imagine you would want to hear anything other then that.

Actually, I was giving my opinion, to which I'm sure many people (I'm sure Hooahguy guy does) disagree.

You can't claim the lands aren't Israeli because they aren't. If Israel is a member of the international institutions it is, then he must abide by all international protocols and regulations, and within them outlines the borders between Israel and Palestine.

Using that premise, since Israel is willingly consenting action by citizens to settle in a land which is not theirs, and further, prevents the Palestinians from asserting sovereignty in their own land (Which would involve forcibly removing Israeli settlers from Palestine and booting them back to Israel), then I can conclude that it is correctly labelled as criminal, by international standards.

[Odin]

You can't claim the lands aren't Israeli because they aren't. If Israel is a member of the international institutions it is, then he must abide by all international protocols and regulations, and within them outlines the borders between Israel and Palestine.

If you are going to use adherence to international institutions dictums as the baramoter for what others cant or can claim then again your creating a predetermined response based on a desired outcome. Of course you are entitled to label anything you like, or draw any conclusion you like but that dosent mean you are correct.

Protip:when you use language on a message board that is in absolute terms like "They are criminals" you place yourself in a position to be rebuttaled and be possibly humilitated. The tip is in the last sentence, notice I used "possibly" this 1 word addition to the prose gives you much more leeway to make arguments in favor of your position. it also allows you the ability to make concessions to others who make valid points without having to say in absolute terms "I was wrong"

The answer is often somewhere in the middle, proclaiming Israel cannot claim this or cannot do this isnt based in reality. Its based on a preferred outcome that isnt based on tangible examples of behaviors of said parties, and thats where your argument falls on its face. Reality based arguments on Israel are always the most prudent because what should happen based on law, hasnt, nor will it likely too.

Good luck in your quest for opinion though, hope it goes exactly the way you want it.

[Jolt]

If you are going to use adherence to international institutions dictums as the baramoter for what others cant or can claim then again your creating a predetermined response based on a desired outcome. Of course you are entitled to label anything you like, or draw any conclusion you like but that dosent mean you are correct.

When you give a fact as I have, one can say that the said person is correct. However, I can accept that other people have other points of view on the matter at hand, and that these may be equally valid as well.

Protip:when you use language on a message board that is in absolute terms like "They are criminals" you place yourself in a position to be rebuttaled and be possibly humilitated. The tip is in the last sentence, notice I used "possibly" this 1 word addition to the prose gives you much more leeway to make arguments in favor of your position. it also allows you the ability to make concessions to others who make valid points without having to say in absolute terms "I was wrong"

But sure, thanks for the tip.

The answer is often somewhere in the middle, proclaiming Israel cannot claim this or cannot do this isnt based in reality. Its based on a preferred outcome that isnt based on tangible examples of behaviors of said parties, and thats where your argument falls on its face. Reality based arguments on Israel are always the most prudent because what should happen based on law, hasnt, nor will it likely too.

Good luck in your quest for opinion though, hope it goes exactly the way you want it.

Oh, I am well aware that answer for most things lies in the middleground. I myself am largely a proponent of that. Aristotle called it "Prudence", while Confucius called it "Harmony". I am not saying that they cannot do what they are doing. I was speaking in relation with the article. The fact is that the author says that a central issue to solving the Israeli-Palestinian problem is the settlements. These are illegal and are an humilliating stain on all Palestinians. The simple fact that the Israeli Prime-Minister refuses to dismantle the settlements not only gives strength to Palestinian radicals over moderates, but also flat out prevents any advancement in peace talk negotiations.

[Odin]

Oh, I am well aware that answer for most things lies in the middleground. I myself am largely a proponent of that. Aristotle called it "Prudence", while Confucius called it "Harmony".

This wins the thread for me, I officially take my leave sir! You get it, its not an israel or palastine issue its a palastine israel issue (as a zen master might say) it is not one side over the other it is a harmonous pile of dung that anyone who was prudent (hint hint mr obama) would allow those who left the pile there to clean it up themselves.

IE: let the muslims come take the land themselves if they dont think israel belongs there, or shut the hell up already because, reality check, the jews aint moving.

Cheers.

[Jolt]

This wins the thread for me, I officially take my leave sir! You get it, its not an israel or palastine issue its a palastine israel issue (as a zen master might say) it is not one side over the other it is a harmonous pile of dung that anyone who was prudent (hint hint mr obama) would allow those who left the pile there to clean it up themselves.

IE: let the muslims come take the land themselves if they dont think israel belongs there, or shut the hell up already because, reality check, the jews aint moving.

Cheers.

...Hm?

[tibilicus]

Peace will never happen. Both sides hate each other with a passion. Israel will also only accept deals on their terms, which means the continuous expansion of illegal settlements in Palestinian territory. Then again Hamas wont accept any deal which doesn't involve the destruction of Israel.

If only they could put such issues aside and agree on a single, unified Palestine-Israel state, shame the likely hood of that happening is zero thanks to both sides stubborn mentality and the fact they both just love shooting each other. TBH I'm sick of hearing about Israel,Hamas, hezboulla ect. No side has shown any real initiative for peace, quite frankly neither side deserves it.

End rant.

[Pannonian]

Peace will never happen. Both sides hate each other with a passion. Israel will also only accept deals on their terms, which means the continuous expansion of illegal settlements in Palestinian territory. Then again Hamas wont accept any deal which doesn't involve the destruction of Israel.

If only they could put such issues aside and agree on a single, unified Palestine-Israel state, shame the likely hood of that happening is zero thanks to both sides stubborn mentality and the fact they both just love shooting each other. TBH I'm sick of hearing about Israel,Hamas, hezboulla ect. No side has shown any real initiative for peace, quite frankly neither side deserves it.

End rant.

We should just do what I've urged many times before. Fence the whole area off, allow nothing in or out. Quarantine the whole region. Let them have at each other as much as they want, as long as they leave the rest of us alone.