Here I was thinking desecrating sacred space was a Medieval Thing!

**Philippus Flavius Homovallumus** · 08-03-2009, 02:16

Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

Ugh, I know all about them, I am very unhappy about one of their churches that set up a few years ago in my town. Then again, I'm not exactly enamoured with the Kirk of late either.

Oh, please start a topic on it (the Kirk).

Actually, tell me what's wrong with the Episcopalians as well.

**Rhyfelwyr** · 08-03-2009, 02:19

Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

Oh, please start a topic on it (the Kirk).

Actually, tell me what's wrong with the Episcopalians as well.

Woah, I wasn't meaning to make a generalised attack, just talking about one church. As for a topic on the Kirk, what bit of it are you talking about?

**Philippus Flavius Homovallumus** · 08-03-2009, 02:25

Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

Woah, I wasn't meaning to make a generalised attack, just talking about one church. As for a topic on the Kirk, what bit of it are you talking about?

The great thing about Episcopal government is if you don't like a Church you can write to the local Bishop!

Generally, I'm interested about the Kirk.

**Rhyfelwyr** · 08-03-2009, 02:30

Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

The great thing about Episcopal government is if you don't like a Church you can write to the local Bishop!

Because Ministers can't read?!

Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

Generally, I'm interested about the Kirk.

Be specific man! Do you mean doctrines, the beliefs of the general membership, the relationship with society... whatever.

**Philippus Flavius Homovallumus** · 08-03-2009, 02:43

Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

Because Ministers can't read?!

No, because the Bishop can do something about it. Case in point, Michael Exon is very well liked and I have been told from those who have first hand expereince that when a parish descends into chaos he fixes it with justice and compassion. That's just the local Bishop, hell the man has also reduced me to tears twice.

Be specific man! Do you mean doctrines, the beliefs of the general membership, the relationship with society... whatever.

Well, what's upsetting you?

**Rhyfelwyr** · 08-03-2009, 02:56

Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

No, because the Bishop can do something about it. Case in point, Michael Exon is very well liked and I have been told from those who have first hand expereince that when a parish descends into chaos he fixes it with justice and compassion. That's just the local Bishop, hell the man has also reduced me to tears twice.

OK, fair enough. I don't reckon episcopalianism is so bad today, since the flock are now in demand. It's more its political uses throughout history that fuel my knee-jerk reactions.

Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

Well, what's upsetting you?

1. A decision taken allowing a certain minister to retain his position despite his inclinations (guess who)
2. They reintroduced pagan festivals (OK this was a while ago but still)
3. There is a stained-glass window with Jesus on it and now they put crosses everywhere in the church
4. Nobody knows anything about doctrines, I don't really ask them but I can tell, the only people I know who take religion seriously go to congregational churches
5. They are doing ecumenical work with the Catholic Church, which is having bad influences on our own church, but saying this would not doubt make me bigoted
6. Fuelled by their ecumenical frenzies, they united with the episcopalian church in denying to provide a serive to an Orange walk because they want to disassociate themselves with sectarianism... religion should not matter to people apparently
7. my minister only talks about the nice stuff in christianity, how Jesus united people, brings them in, never judges, basically all the nonsense stereotypes... people serve God because they think he will serve them, this is not how it should be, they should be convicted of their sins
8. more stuff I am too tired to remember...

**Philippus Flavius Homovallumus** · 08-03-2009, 15:42

Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

OK, fair enough. I don't reckon episcopalianism is so bad today, since the flock are now in demand. It's more its political uses throughout history that fuel my knee-jerk reactions.

Given that the majority of Christians throughout history have been under a Bishop it stands to reason the majority of abuses would happen under bishops.

1. A decision taken allowing a certain minister to retain his position despite his inclinations (guess who)
2. They reintroduced pagan festivals (OK this was a while ago but still)
3. There is a stained-glass window with Jesus on it and now they put crosses everywhere in the church
4. Nobody knows anything about doctrines, I don't really ask them but I can tell, the only people I know who take religion seriously go to congregational churches
5. They are doing ecumenical work with the Catholic Church, which is having bad influences on our own church, but saying this would not doubt make me bigoted
6. Fuelled by their ecumenical frenzies, they united with the episcopalian church in denying to provide a serive to an Orange walk because they want to disassociate themselves with sectarianism... religion should not matter to people apparently
7. my minister only talks about the nice stuff in christianity, how Jesus united people, brings them in, never judges, basically all the nonsense stereotypes... people serve God because they think he will serve them, this is not how it should be, they should be convicted of their sins
8. more stuff I am too tired to remember...

1. I vaguely recall this, I can't remember if he was a practicing homosexual. If he wasn't then he can't fairly be dissmissed.
2. I think most Christian would say it's only a pagan festival if you worship a pagan God. Trying to stop people enjoying themselves is impossible, all you do is make people miserable.
3. Total non-issue. There is a Church in Exeter, it has a cross on the front, tall narrow windows, a little bell and a banner proclaming, "Jesus Christ is Lord". I think it's the most pretensious building in the city, because it is deliberately ugly. It looks just enough like a Church to be recognised and is otherwise a brick blockhouse. Idolatry is in the eye, not the statue.
4. Completely normal for a Church which serves its comunity, the majority of people have neither the time nor skill-set for theology. I'm presuming you can recite the Shorter Catchism, which I presume you had to learn before Baptism. Expecting more than that from most people is unfair.
5. Matter of opinion.
6. Rhy, I hate to tell you this but the Orange Order provided at least tacit support for the Loyalist Militias. This isn't a religious issue, it's a sectarian one.
7. Sounds like the CofE. People should believe God loves them, and that he is Good and Just. Trying to get people to hate themselves just turns them away from God. I am a firm believer that if you make people feel safe and loved they open up and are willing to admit their own shortcomings.