help fighting suromatai?

**m046720** · 08-03-2009, 15:44

I am playing with Sweboz, and I fighting suromatai for the first time in my long EB career. I am getting completely annihilated. I cant get close to them. my arrows dont penetrate their cavalry armor. My heavy troops' armor doesnt stop their arrows. Any tips? Do i need mercenary phalanx? or heavy cavalry?

Also, a side question: Does it have to say bonus vs cavalry or bonus fighting in woods to actually get those bonuses? or do all spear units get that bonus. do all german units get bonuses in the woods?

**DaciaJC** · 08-03-2009, 16:54

The Sweboz are singularly unfit to fight the Sauromatae (and other nomad factions) using only factional troops, most of which are unarmored and serve as pincushions for arrows. Your best bet lies in taking a settlement near or in Sauromatae lands, building a Type III/IV government and a regional barracks, and recruiting local horse archers/foot archers.

As far as I know (though you'll want to get this confirmed), most, if not all, Sweboz units get a combat bonus when fighting in woods. Spear units get a defense boost (again, this is if I recall correctly) when fighting against cavalry in any terrain.

**Vasiliyi** · 08-03-2009, 17:28

Try taking them on in a settlement where they wont have as much freedom to out-maneuver. Taking the fight to them in tight city roads might give you an advantage, but I imagine that you'd still suffer great casualties.

**m046720** · 08-03-2009, 17:49

So you think heavy casualties no matter what? Will heavy phalanxes out last their arrow volleys?

**m046720** · 08-03-2009, 17:51

Originally Posted by Frontline1944

The Sweboz are singularly unfit to fight the Sauromatae (and other nomad factions) using only factional troops, most of which are unarmored and serve as pincushions for arrows. Your best bet lies in taking a settlement near or in Sauromatae lands, building a Type III/IV government and a regional barracks, and recruiting local horse archers/foot archers.

As far as I know (though you'll want to get this confirmed), most, if not all, Sweboz units get a combat bonus when fighting in woods. Spear units get a defense boost (again, this is if I recall correctly) when fighting against cavalry in any terrain.

Thanks frontline. I guess i should just stay away from them. Or stay in the woods. It is frustrating though. Which type of factions would fare well against them?

**Brave Brave Sir Robin** · 08-03-2009, 18:04

Factions that have access to more eastern style units, aka heavy cavalry, horse archers of their own, and strong foot archers preform well. Other nomads, Baktria, and Arche Seleukia come to mind as does a strong Hayasdan. Most barbarians have a tough time as would KH and Romani.

**Andy1984** · 08-03-2009, 18:14

Originally Posted by m046720

So you think heavy casualties no matter what? Will heavy phalanxes out last their arrow volleys?

I wouldn't count too much on that. Even if your phalanx isn't anihilated by arrow fire, their bodyguards are likely to charge when they run out of ammunition. A depleted phalanx unit can be broken quite easily by heavy cavalry, even if the charge is a clear frontal one.

I believe assaulting their cities is one of your few decent options. Use spies, and storm their cities once you can. There your AP-weapons and spears can do what your arrows can't: killing their heavy cavalry. About fighting them in the open: I'm afraid you'll have to rely on missiles (scythian foot archers, various horse archers, slingers,...) to counter them. Just sitting there and getting shot at isn't going to bring victory. I know, because I'm experiencing a quite similar situation right now...

As a sidenote: if it is only a rare unit that is giving you particular headaches, you might try to find out where the sauromatae train that unit and send some assassins to sabotage said infrastructure. The Sauromatae will repair it, so you'll have to damage it every turn, but at least each succesfull sabotage attempt means one heavy cavalry or horse archer unit less to fight.

good luck,

Andy

**DaciaJC** · 08-03-2009, 18:19

Originally Posted by m046720

Thanks frontline. I guess i should just stay away from them. Or stay in the woods. It is frustrating though. Which type of factions would fare well against them?

If you want to still play a barbarian faction, you'd want to go with the Getai. Access to horse archers and decent foot archers of their own (plus the ability to very quickly recruit excellent regional units) means you could fight the Sauromatae at their own game.

That being said, I've never gone after the Sauromatae in either of my Getai campaigns. The steppes offer little possibility for development compared to the rest of Europe.

**m046720** · 08-03-2009, 18:47

Originally Posted by Andy1984

I wouldn't count too much on that. Even if your phalanx isn't anihilated by arrow fire, their bodyguards are likely to charge when they run out of ammunition. A depleted phalanx unit can be broken quite easily by heavy cavalry, even if the charge is a clear frontal one.

I believe assaulting their cities is one of your few decent options. Use spies, and storm their cities once you can. There your AP-weapons and spears can do what your arrows can't: killing their heavy cavalry. About fighting them in the open: I'm afraid you'll have to rely on missiles (scythian foot archers, various horse archers, slingers,...) to counter them. Just sitting there and getting shot at isn't going to bring victory. I know, because I'm experiencing a quite similar situation right now...

As a sidenote: if it is only a rare unit that is giving you particular headaches, you might try to find out where the sauromatae train that unit and send some assassins to sabotage said infrastructure. The Sauromatae will repair it, so you'll have to damage it every turn, but at least each succesfull sabotage attempt means one heavy cavalry or horse archer unit less to fight.

good luck,

Andy

I am definitely going to try the sabotage. They are so frustrating. Thanks. It is tough going from mopping the floor with romani to being annihilated by sauromatae.

**athanaric** · 08-03-2009, 19:39

Originally Posted by m046720

I am definitely going to try the sabotage. They are so frustrating. Thanks. It is tough going from mopping the floor with romani to being annihilated by sauromatae.

Units that might be particularly useful to you are:

Medjinikos (Baltic Frontiersmen) - best Archer-Spearmen in the game (Range: 184 m).
Skuda Baexdzhyntae (Skythian Riders) - decent HAs with spears and shields to boot (Range: 190.4 m).
Skuda Fistaeg Fat Aexsdzhytae (Skythian Foot Archers) - light archers with long range (198 m IIRC).
Thureopherontes Toxotai !!! (Bosphoran Archers) - heavily armoured and decent in melee (Range: 180 m).

and of course, as melee-only troops: Speudogordoz, your factional cavalry shredders.

Compare the Sarmatian units:

Usual HAs:
Range: 187 m

Elite HAs incl. Aeldary Aembaltae (Bodyguard of Doom):
190.4 m

It is worthwhile to note that Sauromatae vs. Swêboz is an "instagib match": In the open, the Suebi will lose horribly; in close combat, the roles are reversed as the Sauromatae have no decent factional melee units.
Which means you should always, even on the strategy map, look for the cover of woods/trees to evade or ambush their armies.