KOTF OOC Thread

[AussieGiant]

thanks for the support GH

[TinCow]

For the record, I would consider re-fighting a battle to try and get a better result to be a violation of the Throne Room Code of Conduct.

[Vladimir]

A procedural question for the group: How specific to edicts need to be?

There is talk of making trade agreements with the AI factions but nothing formal is proposed in-game. When I play, I secure trade rights with the AI as a matter of course. There is nothing to loose from securing trade rights. Do we need to specifically state which factions we want to trade with or can we do it automatically with every faction?

[econ21]

A procedural question for the group: How specific to edicts need to be?

There is talk of making trade agreements with the AI factions but nothing formal is proposes in-game. When I play, I secure trade rights with the AI as a matter of course. There is nothing to loose from securing trade rights. Do we need to specifically state which factions we want to trade with or can we do it automatically with every faction?

The way I see it, edicts are to usually to constrain the Seneschal to do something (except that a few like declarations of war empower him). So generally I think they are things you would want to propose because you don't think a Seneschal will freely do it or because you are unsure he would. In such cases, you might want very specific legislation as the Seneschal may try to lawyer his way out of doing what you want to constrain him to do.

For example, with trade agreements, an unconstrained Seneschal might go to town with them and trade with everyone. Consequently, as you say, they might not be the kind of thing you would typically need to legislate on - as a normal Seneschal would make the agreements anyway. However, there still may be role-playing reasons to legislate. For example, an economically minded Councillor might want to be absolutely sure that the Seneschal does make agreements and propose an edict to that effect. Others with an enmity of a specific faction may oppose agreements with that faction etc.

[Vladimir]

Thank you.

The alliance with Scotland was kinda obvious but needed for in-game reasons. I wanted the diplomat to have visibility on the capital to help keep them in the game. Hopefully trade is an automatic thing but money must be spent on diplomats and etc.

[Zim]

Figures I miss a day and we get serious posts.

First, I did take note of changed avatar teleportation requests on the last posts. I am also saving the pms of requests sent to me. I've left them marked as unread to make them easier to find when I can sit down and do the teleportations. Just wanted to let people know in case they were checking their pm read receipts.

I'm sorry it's taking long. A combination of being busy, not being very experienced with console stuff, and just plain letting myself get distracted. I will be sitting down and getting as much console stuff done as possible tomorrow early afternoon. Hopefully if I don't run into any problems that will be enough time to finish it all. If not I'll just stay up late tomorrow night and do it... I'm sorry for any problems the delay may have caused. I'm still getting used to gming this type of game.

To Vladimir, Econ has it right. Edicts can be as specific or not as you want, and can be about almost anything. Generally they don't have to be Seneschal-proof so as to leave the Seneschal no options, unless you have terrible relations with one or all candidates. However, if a Seneschal claimed there were no extra forces to conquer province x as stipulated by edict such and such, consequences would be IC, he wouldn't get in trouble for breaking a rule (like he would if he broke one of the permanant rules), so there might be some situations where you'd want to word it to prevent weaseling out as such as possible.

Econ21 I agree that taking settlements that have ok garrisons with a single general's unit breaks rp (part of the reason I was ok with buffing starting AI stacks). to some extent it can't be helped, I think. I can't really stop people, but I hope it doesn't happen often. I suspect once we grow a bit anyone wanting to conquer territory will be able to get an army anyway, part of the reason I decentralized prioritized units a little. Hopefully that won't be too big a headache for wouldbe Seneschals.

I'd like to reiterate what you said about using other people's generals. Even if nothing else will convince someone, at least consider one could be making longterm enemies if generals that fight with them tend not to survive. Personally I don't think it will be too much of a problem (I was terrified of using generals I had command of, tended to risk and overuse my own instead...).

Reloading is definitely cheating.

AG Agreed. I'm not sure we'll see any problems, but it's good to bring these and the things Econ brought up early to get them out of the way.

[Ituralde]

Very good points from all of you. It's sometimes good to state the obvious at the start.

Maybe for those who weren't with us during KotR. There was a time where my lowly avatar, who thanks to M2s freak rules was heir to the throne, was fighting in the same stack as the Kaiser himself. The player of the Kaiser, Warluster asked me to do some battles for him since he didn't have the time. Under the KotR rules this kind of subbing was still allowed. There were three encounters with Danish forces. The first two were the hardest fought and I wasn't even sure whether I should take on the third stack. Then I saw that it was mainly artillery and my force was far superior. During the battle itself I charged with my own bodyguard towards the hill where the artillery lay while the main army made a slow approach. I tried to keep the Kaiser safe. That was until he turned into a ball of flame from one lucky catapult shot! Mere seconds(!!) before the enemy army routed!

You do not want to know how shocked I was, and how tempted to just reload that stupid last battle. I really was. Here I had just killed off the avatar entrusted to me by a fellow gamer, who was the Kaiser(!!) and I incidentally pushed my own avatar to the position of Kaiser! I'm pretty sure Warluster was a little mad at me. But I didn't reload.

And if you look back at the timeline of KotR and all the events that transpired after the battle above, it would have been a royal shame had I truly reloaded.

[_Tristan_]

Just to let you know : I will be away this week-end with almost inexistant internet access, so if this is not a bother, could the Council period be extended to Monday...

It would be a damn shame if the King didn't take part in deciding the Fate of his Kingdom...

[AussieGiant]

Yes well it's the third email like that I've written.

I should just save it somewhere and roll it out when necessary.

[Ituralde]

So on another topic entirely I will be gone the next three weeks! Happy camping through the Scottish Highlands!

I sent some votes to Zim in the hope that they will still be counted. I look forward to seeing your progress when I return.

Also sorry for the short notice, but I wanted to avoid meta-gaming and had also hoped to get the first Council Session over before I leave.

Have fun!

Ituralde

[_Tristan_]

One thing I noticed : shouldn't we have a status and orders thread (like we did in LotR) ?

[Ignoramus]

One of the main reasons I'm opposing buying Angers is that it seems rather gamey. What is 2-3,000 florins to us? Surely the diplomatic AI is too stupid to try this tactic. I remember in KotR when the Russians offered us money and threatened to attack us if we didn't accept.

[econ21]

One of the main reasons I'm opposing buying Angers is that it seems rather gamey. What is 2-3,000 florins to us?

Um, would they accept?[1] I never thought they would, but now that you put it like that I would not mind if the edict is voted down. I kind of gave up on M2TW diplomacy, as it seemed pretty unrewarding in vanilla at VH.


[1]That's a rhetorical question - I don't want people to play ahead.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I have finally purchased Kingdoms.
Now I have a lot bigger problem in my hands .. I need to find room for it in my PC

[_Tristan_]

Frankly, I don't think the English will accept selling us Angers or if they do it will cost us dearly (though I'm not sure because my M2TW days are far behind me now and I've not played LTC before)... Moreover, I see it as a way to enforce the "no-English bashing" policy that Philippe is trying to enforce...

What seems more gamey to me would be to allow some or all of our RBGs to rush English cities and castles and bring the downfall of England before the fist term is over (a result I'm sure we could collectively achieve)... Better to create a state of peace that will bring some more IC interaction in the next few seasons or in the next term.

Thta at least is my OOC point of view... back to IC

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Now, after I have checked all these Kingdoms campaigns I have a small request:

Could we mod those Greek Firethrowers(or mangonels) in for us?
I think I haven't laughed so much for awhile after I saw what 20 units of Firethrowers can do!

[Zim]

Set down to move people around to their preferred starting settlements, and according to the console 90% of them don't exist, at least under the names on their unit cards.

I can give traits since I can click on the characters and type in "this" instead of their name, but that doesn't work for the teleport command.

Even if we decided to just let characters hoof it to starting locations, this makes killing off the extras a problem. At least there's a crossing in LTC across the Channel, so I could kill them within a few turns by manually moving them...

I'll need to discuss things with Tristan to see how he added the more authentic names. Maybe the internal names are different from the ones we see.

In the meantime the Council is extended one day as I've received a request to push it back a little. Future Councils will be shorter but I wanted to be generous timewise with our first one.

[ULC]

if you are having an issue with the vast majority of the "de andthisandthat's" it is because you would type it out "FirstName de_ThisandThat". Tristan put them in very well, so that should be your only issue.

[Zim]

I'll give it a try tonight. some of the names the console couldn't find didn't have any "de"s or "la"s, but most did.

[ULC]

Which ones? If you give me a list, I can figure out which names are "special" and give the correct way to teleport them. Alas, such is free time

[Zim]

Well, so far Yvon Laze and one of the unchosen generals could be teleported. The other people who requested being moved were either already at the settlement they wanted, or couldn't be.

I should be able to figure them out now that I know of the invisible "_"s.

For future reference, when someone becomes a Prince, gains a nickname, etc. and their unit card name changes, does the name the console recognizes also change?

[ULC]

Well, so far Yvon Laze and one of the unchosen generals could be teleported. The other people who requested being moved were either already at the settlement they wanted, or couldn't be.

I should be able to figure them out now that I know of the invisible "_"s.

For future reference, when someone becomes a Prince, gains a nickname, etc. and their unit card name changes, does the name the console recognizes also change?

No, not at all. Prince, King, etc, are titles, they are not actually the name.

[Zim]

So Prince Louis would not be recognized as such in a console command, even though that's how his name appears to the player?

[ULC]

So Prince Louis would not be recognized as such in a console command, even though that's how his name appears to the player?

Correct - His name would be "Louis", since he has not been assigned a last name - nor has anyone in the Royal Family.

[OverKnight]

It's been a long time, but I helped TC assemble names for teleportation for the Cataclysm. The console is very picky. It will only accept a character's originial name, it won't accept titles such as Prince or "the Merciless" etc.

I had to go back in the saves and hunt down originial names for a few players and enemy generals. Nikiforos the Mean couldn't be transported for example, but Nikiforos Argyrus, his originial name, could.

I'm sure the info can be found and that there is a trick to transporting one name, royalty, characters. I'll search around if I have some free time at work tonight.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

ugghhhhh, may sit out of this council. Just back from New York, and I need to get ready for another trip. I am still around and will be back in a week however.

[The Lemongate]

ugghhhhh, may sit out of this council. Just back from New York, and I need to get ready for another trip. I am still around and will be back in a week however.

Dont worry Cultured, you're not the only one with very little time on his hands at the moment. Spending more then 2 minutes at the computer is just time I don't have these days!

[Ramses II CP]

Yes, you have my sympathy. I'm glad I got some dedicated time to type a bit tonight, can't let you lot of rabble start thinking you run things.

[OverKnight]

I forget, Ramses, which Louis are you playing? Would it be Louis XVI?

Edit: Or will you be bellowing, "I am the State!" at some point?

[Ramses II CP]

I have no comment at this time.

...but don't call him fat.