Afghanistan

[rotorgun]

Some good points of view have been advanced in this thread. I am in agreement with much that has been said about the Media being biased, but then I think the Major Networks are tools bought and paid for by the corporate/political machine. What British Mutt + Viking posted about how our American leaders have not managed to convey, what are the obvious strategic interests of the Persian Gulf region-sound reasons to take military action is true, although it does make us appear imperialistc. Afghanistan offers no such economic plums, excluding the oft referred to plan to run a oil pipeline there from the Caspian Sea oilfields-perhaps a chimera of a "pipe dream" in reality.

Of the two Gotterdamerungen we are engaged in, which do you all believe is the more moral cause? I think that any moral claim we may have had in Iraq has been made an hypocrisy by the shifting political reasons claimed thus far, acts of brutality and sadism by the alleged "liberators", the huge presence of civilian contractors making money hand over fist, and failure to make the war pay for itself by increased profits from Iraqi oil production.

In Afghanistan, our moral causus belli is much more defined-the elimination of Al Qaeda and its oppressive Taliban supporters. There is a real chance for the peoples' lives to be made better by a victory there. I am in full support of this, as it appeals to my American ideals. Iraq has always left me feeling somewhat ashamed-although I will do my duty as a soldier there if asked to. I guess I just feel more sympathetic with the brave people of Afghanistan, who are willing to fight for their freedom. Not so, I'm afraid with many of the Shiite dominated people of Iraq. They seem to lack the will. I just hope that we will have the will to stay until victory is acheived in Afghanistan-a task that may take generations.

[al Roumi]

What British Mutt + Viking posted about how our American leaders have not managed to convey, what are the obvious strategic interests of the Persian Gulf region-sound reasons to take military action is true, although it does make us appear imperialistc.

Appear imperialistic??

The lack of awareness among Americans of how others perceive America is truly astounding. No offense to you Rotorgun.

The contrasts within the country are even more astounding. I find it amazing it all holds together, or even wants to!

That said, I know that there are enlightened and outward looking (not just predatorialy ) people within the USA. I would be more frustrated as one of them on the inside than, as I am (not American) on the outside where I can do nothing...

[A1_Unit]

Appear imperialistic??

The lack of awareness among Americans of how others perceive America is truly astounding. No offense to you Rotorgun.

I know how the rest of the world perceives America - but that is for another thread.

About Afghanistan, the reason it has never been subdued is because it hasn't been important enough for the empires to control - they didn't need it enough and got tired of the rebellions (or, they cut their losses because wars in Afghanistan were a huge resource drain).

[Fragony]

Didn't we kinda conquer it, if we chose so nothing is alive there

[Centurion1]

conquering and subduing are two different things. Conquering afghanistan is easy...... keeping it under peaceful control is the difficult part.

And no it wasnt just russians and americans who have had trouble. The british, parthians, and even Alexander the Great had trouble.

[G. Septimus]

Afghanistan, was'nt even related to the stories of David, Solomon, Muhamad, nor Jesus.
it is'nt beloved by the gods.
it's people wants freedom. well, Afghanistan even can't control itself, though they are free,,,,,
and the Americans just pour in into somebody else's problems

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

americans in afghanistan!!!

[Hax]

I think Vietnam fell apart really because of the desire and motivation. In traditional terms America more than won the war. But since of the lack of home support the north Vietnamese achieved a resounding propaganda victory.

I can't believe people still believe this.

The United States ground forces were morally annihilated. I don't see how a retreat equals victory. Where does this happen? It was a useless fight in the first place, and it's not like it was down out of self-defense.