Mercenaries

[HoreTore]

Since i am more than likely going to JOIN the US Army, i would imagine i believe they are effective.

Mercenaries do not operate as an arm of the united states army. They are quasi-military which means they are relegated to training, defense, protection, and intelligence. all things that may lead to fighting but are not directly fighting. This is the US of course.

So.... Since you believe that Blackwater is worth the money you pay them to do those things, that must mean that you consider the US army itself inferior in these jobs, no?

[Sheogorath]

Hiring mercenaries seems a bit insulting to the regular armed forces. I mean, really, don't we have Delta Force to do our dirty work? What's wrong with them?
And if things get really bad, you just call in Jack Bauer. Really, people. No need for overpayed mercs at all.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

So.... Since you believe that Blackwater is worth the money you pay them to do those things, that must mean that you consider the US army itself inferior in these jobs, no?

To free up soldiers for the front line? If you don't have enough regular soldiers around to do the job?

[HoreTore]

To free up soldiers for the front line? If you don't have enough regular soldiers around to do the job?

Nope, since you could perfectly use the money spent on blackwater to hire the soldiers you need. Actually, you could just hire the very same soldiers for the US army instead of proxying them as mercs.

But a US army soldier is bound by the geneva conventions(nominally, at least...), whereas blackwater operates outside international law. You don't have the be a major conspiracy theorist to worry about that fact.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Nope, since you could perfectly use the money spent on blackwater to hire the soldiers you need. Actually, you could just hire the very same soldiers for the US army instead of proxying them as mercs.

You have to hire the soldiers, train them, give them benefits and pensions, and so on. Why would one hire mercenaries in Rome: Total War? Because you didn't have to train the troops, they were a very quick fix. You don't have to promise them any benefits, either - their employer does that for you (which may well cut down bureaucratic workload and waste, but I'm speculating here).

But a US army soldier is bound by the geneva conventions(nominally, at least...), whereas blackwater operates outside international law.

An added convenience for the hiring power. Change the international laws then, if you like.

[HoreTore]

You have to hire the soldiers, train them, give them benefits and pensions, and so on. Why would one hire mercenaries in Rome: Total War? Because you didn't have to train the troops, they were a very quick fix. You don't have to promise them any benefits, either - their employer does that for you (which may well cut down bureaucratic workload and waste, but I'm speculating here).

Train the soldiers? Already done, Blackwater mercs are all ex-US army soldiers. You don't have to provide them any benefits? What? You think you just pay for their hourly wage, and then the boss of Blackwater is kind enough to provide the benefits? No, the world doesn't work that way. The benefits for the blackwater employees is included in the cost to hire them.

As for the bureaucracy thing, wrong again. Blackwater needs the same bureaucracy to handle things as the US army would need.

No, the only reason to hire Blackwater, would be...

An added convenience for the hiring power. Change the international laws then, if you like.

....And this comment kinda leaves me speechless.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Train the soldiers? Already done, Blackwater mercs are all ex-US army soldiers.

All of them?

You don't have to provide them any benefits? What? You think you just pay for their hourly wage, and then the boss of Blackwater is kind enough to provide the benefits?

Hardly. Of course you contribute to their benefits, but you don't have to pay for all of them. Other companies or countries hiring Blackwater personnel also contribute, meaning you may not have to pay as much in a roundabout fashion I suppose. Do Blackwater personnel also get things like funerals paid for by the US Army (directly, not through the hiring fee)?

As for the bureaucracy thing, wrong again. Blackwater needs the same bureaucracy to handle things as the US army would need.

You misread my post - my point was that the government would not need to have the bureaucracy to deal with it, making it Blackwater's problem.

[Centurion1]

Hore tore you are wrong on multiple accounts.

first-
They are not all ex us army. You do not understand the united states military system or you were making a general statement. There are ex marines, swat, navy, air force, commercial pilots......

There are also foreigners, sas from Britain, Mossad from Israel, locals from the middle east to translate and the like, South Africans, French Foreign Legionnaires, etc....

Second- The us army could just train more troops.

Incorrect the military is not allowed to have unlimited numbers of men. The marine corps has 175000 maximum troops for example. Also there is no draft and therefore a smaller pool of recruits.

Third-

They do free up troops for the front lines. and they have skills in high value protection that most regular soldiers do not have the training for.

fourth-

The united states government pays ZERO benefits to private contractors. They pay a lump sum (400 million i think for a few years in Iraq, which is a drop in the bucket compared to the cost of training and hiring new soldiers) and the legitimate COMPANY Blackwater, INC., gives them bonuses, health care plans, etc. and a salary. They are not payed by the hour.


fifth and finally-
I would prefer you do put words in my mouth about an organization i want to join.

[HoreTore]

All of them?

"Of the 987 contractors Xe(blackwater) provides, 744 are U.S. citizens."

Blackwater doesn't train their personnel. They hire ex-spec ops personnel.

Hardly. Of course you contribute to their benefits, but you don't have to pay for all of them. Other companies or countries hiring Blackwater personnel also contribute, meaning you may not have to pay as much in a roundabout fashion I suppose. Do Blackwater personnel also get things like funerals paid for by the US Army (directly, not through the hiring fee)?

"At least 90 percent of the company's revenue comes from government contracts, of which two-thirds are no-bid contracts."

You misread my post - my point was that the government would not need to have the bureaucracy to deal with it, making it Blackwater's problem.

But it would cost the exact same ammount, thus being an irrelevant point.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

We can talk as much as we want but Mercenaries will always remain.

It, selling your skills as a warrior, is one of the oldest jobs in the world(after prostitution of course).

[Husar]

This site seems to be bugged somehow in every browser I tried(you can mark the text or copy it into wordpad or something), but here is this old story about a mercenary who is actually useful to the population of his workplace.

Just to show that it also depends on the person I guess. Just because they are not bound to law does not have to mean they're bad people just like some soldiers rape and pillage despite it not being allowed.

I generally wouldn't say that mercenaries are a great idea for civilized countries though, the cost argument never made sense to me either, usually a mercenary gets pretty good pay and as HoreTore pointed out it's not like they don't have insurances, bureaucracy etc. like the army does, they might even pay a cleaning service to clean their offices while the army can just have some recruits do it for free.