Results 1 to 30 of 40

Thread: Mercenaries

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    12,014

    Default Re: Mercenaries

    Quote Originally Posted by Centurion1 View Post
    Since i am more than likely going to JOIN the US Army, i would imagine i believe they are effective.

    Mercenaries do not operate as an arm of the united states army. They are quasi-military which means they are relegated to training, defense, protection, and intelligence. all things that may lead to fighting but are not directly fighting. This is the US of course.
    So.... Since you believe that Blackwater is worth the money you pay them to do those things, that must mean that you consider the US army itself inferior in these jobs, no?
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  2. #2
    The Dam Dog Senior Member Sheogorath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,330

    Default Re: Mercenaries

    Hiring mercenaries seems a bit insulting to the regular armed forces. I mean, really, don't we have Delta Force to do our dirty work? What's wrong with them?
    And if things get really bad, you just call in Jack Bauer. Really, people. No need for overpayed mercs at all.
    Tallyho lads, rape the houses and burn the women! Leave not a single potted plant alive! Full speed ahead and damn the cheesemongers!

  3. #3
    Chieftain of the Pudding Race Member Evil_Maniac From Mars's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    6,407

    Default Re: Mercenaries

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    So.... Since you believe that Blackwater is worth the money you pay them to do those things, that must mean that you consider the US army itself inferior in these jobs, no?
    To free up soldiers for the front line? If you don't have enough regular soldiers around to do the job?

  4. #4
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    12,014

    Default Re: Mercenaries

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars View Post
    To free up soldiers for the front line? If you don't have enough regular soldiers around to do the job?
    Nope, since you could perfectly use the money spent on blackwater to hire the soldiers you need. Actually, you could just hire the very same soldiers for the US army instead of proxying them as mercs.

    But a US army soldier is bound by the geneva conventions(nominally, at least...), whereas blackwater operates outside international law. You don't have the be a major conspiracy theorist to worry about that fact.
    Last edited by HoreTore; 08-26-2009 at 21:39.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  5. #5
    Chieftain of the Pudding Race Member Evil_Maniac From Mars's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    6,407

    Default Re: Mercenaries

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    Nope, since you could perfectly use the money spent on blackwater to hire the soldiers you need. Actually, you could just hire the very same soldiers for the US army instead of proxying them as mercs.
    You have to hire the soldiers, train them, give them benefits and pensions, and so on. Why would one hire mercenaries in Rome: Total War? Because you didn't have to train the troops, they were a very quick fix. You don't have to promise them any benefits, either - their employer does that for you (which may well cut down bureaucratic workload and waste, but I'm speculating here).

    But a US army soldier is bound by the geneva conventions(nominally, at least...), whereas blackwater operates outside international law.
    An added convenience for the hiring power. Change the international laws then, if you like.

  6. #6
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    12,014

    Default Re: Mercenaries

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars View Post
    You have to hire the soldiers, train them, give them benefits and pensions, and so on. Why would one hire mercenaries in Rome: Total War? Because you didn't have to train the troops, they were a very quick fix. You don't have to promise them any benefits, either - their employer does that for you (which may well cut down bureaucratic workload and waste, but I'm speculating here).
    Train the soldiers? Already done, Blackwater mercs are all ex-US army soldiers. You don't have to provide them any benefits? What? You think you just pay for their hourly wage, and then the boss of Blackwater is kind enough to provide the benefits? No, the world doesn't work that way. The benefits for the blackwater employees is included in the cost to hire them.

    As for the bureaucracy thing, wrong again. Blackwater needs the same bureaucracy to handle things as the US army would need.

    No, the only reason to hire Blackwater, would be...

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars View Post
    An added convenience for the hiring power. Change the international laws then, if you like.
    ....And this comment kinda leaves me speechless.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  7. #7
    Chieftain of the Pudding Race Member Evil_Maniac From Mars's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    6,407

    Default Re: Mercenaries

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    Train the soldiers? Already done, Blackwater mercs are all ex-US army soldiers.
    All of them?

    You don't have to provide them any benefits? What? You think you just pay for their hourly wage, and then the boss of Blackwater is kind enough to provide the benefits?
    Hardly. Of course you contribute to their benefits, but you don't have to pay for all of them. Other companies or countries hiring Blackwater personnel also contribute, meaning you may not have to pay as much in a roundabout fashion I suppose. Do Blackwater personnel also get things like funerals paid for by the US Army (directly, not through the hiring fee)?

    As for the bureaucracy thing, wrong again. Blackwater needs the same bureaucracy to handle things as the US army would need.
    You misread my post - my point was that the government would not need to have the bureaucracy to deal with it, making it Blackwater's problem.

  8. #8
    Member Centurion1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Wherever my blade takes me or to school, it sorta depends
    Posts
    6,007

    Default Re: Mercenaries

    Hore tore you are wrong on multiple accounts.

    first-
    They are not all ex us army. You do not understand the united states military system or you were making a general statement. There are ex marines, swat, navy, air force, commercial pilots......

    There are also foreigners, sas from Britain, Mossad from Israel, locals from the middle east to translate and the like, South Africans, French Foreign Legionnaires, etc....

    Second- The us army could just train more troops.

    Incorrect the military is not allowed to have unlimited numbers of men. The marine corps has 175000 maximum troops for example. Also there is no draft and therefore a smaller pool of recruits.

    Third-

    They do free up troops for the front lines. and they have skills in high value protection that most regular soldiers do not have the training for.

    fourth-

    The united states government pays ZERO benefits to private contractors. They pay a lump sum (400 million i think for a few years in Iraq, which is a drop in the bucket compared to the cost of training and hiring new soldiers) and the legitimate COMPANY Blackwater, INC., gives them bonuses, health care plans, etc. and a salary. They are not payed by the hour.


    fifth and finally-
    I would prefer you do put words in my mouth about an organization i want to join.

  9. #9
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    12,014

    Default Re: Mercenaries

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars View Post
    All of them?
    "Of the 987 contractors Xe(blackwater) provides, 744 are U.S. citizens."

    Blackwater doesn't train their personnel. They hire ex-spec ops personnel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars View Post
    Hardly. Of course you contribute to their benefits, but you don't have to pay for all of them. Other companies or countries hiring Blackwater personnel also contribute, meaning you may not have to pay as much in a roundabout fashion I suppose. Do Blackwater personnel also get things like funerals paid for by the US Army (directly, not through the hiring fee)?
    "At least 90 percent of the company's revenue comes from government contracts, of which two-thirds are no-bid contracts."

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars View Post
    You misread my post - my point was that the government would not need to have the bureaucracy to deal with it, making it Blackwater's problem.
    But it would cost the exact same ammount, thus being an irrelevant point.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  10. #10
    Senior Member Senior Member Ibn-Khaldun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Estonia
    Posts
    5,489
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default Re: Mercenaries

    We can talk as much as we want but Mercenaries will always remain.

    It, selling your skills as a warrior, is one of the oldest jobs in the world(after prostitution of course).

  11. #11
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    15,617

    Default Re: Mercenaries

    This site seems to be bugged somehow in every browser I tried(you can mark the text or copy it into wordpad or something), but here is this old story about a mercenary who is actually useful to the population of his workplace.

    Just to show that it also depends on the person I guess. Just because they are not bound to law does not have to mean they're bad people just like some soldiers rape and pillage despite it not being allowed.

    I generally wouldn't say that mercenaries are a great idea for civilized countries though, the cost argument never made sense to me either, usually a mercenary gets pretty good pay and as HoreTore pointed out it's not like they don't have insurances, bureaucracy etc. like the army does, they might even pay a cleaning service to clean their offices while the army can just have some recruits do it for free.


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO