Does God hate women?

[InsaneApache]

The hypocrisy of the left.....

"Now they say it is racist to intervene. They're so frightened of being called an Islamophobe, they will defend the right of men to force women to be shackled. They smugly declare that ‘we haven't got the right to impose our values on another culture' and think themselves liberal when they do it."

http://www.standpointmag.co.uk/node/2041/full

Although I'm not even close to Cohen politically I agree 100% with what he says in his article. That Germaine Greer of all people should advocate genital multilation is eye popping. As Louis said the last time there was a humanism/gender v culteralism debate, race trumps gender hands down everytime.

To my mind it's racism. That it eminates from the left is astounding.

[Fragony]

Yeah lefties, there was a time they had ideals but now they have respect. BE NICE TO TEH ANIMALS, oh you slaughter animals by slitting their throats without sedation how very exotic. NO SEXUAL DISCRIMINATION, oh you have have your wife chained to the radiator, that just screams for intercultural dialogue so we can learn from eachother. GAY RIGHTS, oh you think that gays should be thrown from a flat head-first, ah well they don't have a problem with going down anyways. Tea? I wonder if it doesn't strike them as kinda odd but we will never know because of the suffocating social control within the multicultural left.

edit: homegrown madness, the editor of the gay-courant's reputatiom was destroyed by the left because he published some texts from the one, Tariq Ramadan, hero of the left, that aren't quite in line with what he tells them when they are slipping from their chair with desire, so it must have been a false translation when he said that women must keep their eyes peeled to the concrete at all times. Unlike the multipriest who made the decision that it was a poor translation I speak french and it was not a bad translation it was spot on. But the decision has been made, it is a bad translation and I can't handle the truth. Sooooooo confused these bees.

[Askthepizzaguy]

If I remember correctly, the people imposing their divinely-inspired will upon these poor women are hardly left-wing tree huggers.

I disagree with the presentation here of liberals being blamed for the behavior of non-liberals. Should they rise up as one and start shooting people for not subscribing to their liberal beliefs? And if so, should that apply in the United States as well?

I think that this is politicizing an issue that shouldn't be partisan at all, which is the cause of human rights and the rights of women. It's unbecoming to blame liberals or left-wingers for the crimes of fundamentalists... it just makes zero sense.

Next: Blaming pacifists for wars. After all, if you don't support the troops, you must therefore be the enemy.

[Fragony]

If I remember correctly, the people imposing their divinely-inspired will upon these poor women are hardly left-wing tree huggers.

The ones absolutely adoring such practises are left-wing tree huggers. I do not know how it makes sense, but that is how it is. It's simple, multiculturalism is a religion, and religion and reason doesn't coexist very well.

[Askthepizzaguy]

The ones absolutely adoring such practises are left-wing tree huggers. I do not know how it makes sense, but that is how it is. It's simple, multiculturalism is a religion, and religion and reason doesn't coexist very well.

If, by absolutely adoring, you mean they are now wearing burqas and imposing sharia law upon their people, then yes, left-wingers are absolutely supportive of fundamentalist Islamic theocracy.



This is nothing but a giant smear. You might as well suggest that left-wingers are also supportive of the North Korean regime because there's no call to declare war on North Korea. Since when did not wanting to forcibly push one's beliefs on someone else equate with total fanboy support of their beliefs?

There's nothing to this. It is simply rhetoric designed to divide us, on an issue that we would otherwise agree upon. Treating women like that is offensive to me, as it is to you. But unless you're flying over to Saudi Arabia with a gang from Blackwater in order to liberate the women there, you're no more righteous than I on this issue.

I request that some perspective is added to this equation. It is not the fault of multiculturalists that other cultures exist. It's a terribly bad leap of logic to accuse an entire political ideology of supporting something which is its exact opposite, merely because no war has been declared between them.

[InsaneApache]

I'm sorry but it's hypocrisy of the highest magnitude. If 'celebrating diversity' means condoning the rape, multilation, murder and subjegation of women just because they follow a certain religion and that's OK, then they can stick thier multiculturism where the sun don't shine.

It shouldn't be a party politcal issue but sadly it is.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'm sorry but it's hypocrisy of the highest magnitude. If 'celebrating diversity' means condoning the rape, multilation, murder and subjegation of women just because they follow a certain religion and that's OK, then they can stick thier multiculturism where the sun don't shine.

It shouldn't be a party politcal issue but sadly it is.

If you're accusing left-wingers of condoning rape, mutilation, murder, and subjugation of women, then you haven't met a left-winger before.

If you hold up one man as an example of what all left-wingers believe, then you're subscribing to a logical fallacy. Whatever person you identify as a left-winger who supports the rape and murder of women, is a moron, and his beliefs are a result of him being a moron, rather than being a left-winger.

The other day I mentioned that Glenn Beck was an idiot who spoke for himself, not all right-wingers. Can you do me the same courtesy?

[Fragony]

If, by absolutely adoring

Well I don't know if they actually absolutely adore it, who knows what goes on in their heads, but reality shows that they will throw themselves before any initiative towards equal treatment for all. I like to call it a PPD, a progressive personality disorder. I hope that we can help them one day.

[InsaneApache]

I'm getting the impression I didn't read the same article as yourself. It's not the opinion of one man. He exposes the schziod mindset of the liberal left.

I agree that one person shouldn't be used to tar a whole belief system. The trouble is it's endemic in the UK today. From the government to sixth form debating societies.

Making excuses for barbarism is just that. Making excuses.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Well I don't know if they actually absolutely adore it, who knows what goes on in their heads, but reality shows that they will throw themselves before any initiative towards equal treatment for all. I like to call it a PPD, a progressive personality disorder. I hope that we can help them one day.

Ugh.

You know, I don't agree with what you're saying, but there's nothing I can do about it except speak out. That's not the same as condoning your statements.

Left-wingers advocate equal treatment of women and high standards of human rights, even towards those who would not treat us so kindly in return. That left-wingers suggest that perhaps we tolerate moderate Islam, other styles of dress, and promote peace and understanding, does not equate to supporting totalitarian regimes or brutality towards women.

That is what I am saying, and it is a fact. There's a difference between condoning torture and rape, and promoting tolerance of Islam. In free countries like France, Britain, and the United States, Muslim women are protected by law and voluntarily choose to wear a burqa. That is their right. The left (in the great majority, I'd suspect) is NOT supportive of fundamentalist Islamic theocracy, and I resent the implication, because it's just not true.

The left also does not condone cannibalism either. Can we move on? This is ridiculous and beneath the dignity of us all, as rational people.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'm getting the impression I didn't read the same article as yourself. It's not the opinion of one man. He exposes the schziod mindset of the liberal left.

I did not realize he was anointed emperor of the liberal left.

I agree that one person shouldn't be used to tar a whole belief system.

That's exactly what is happening here.

The trouble is it's endemic in the UK today. From the government to sixth form debating societies. Making excuses for barbarism is just that. Making excuses.

Ok, so what do you propose? We invade Saudi Arabia with guns blazing? Other than placing the blame entirely on the left, what constructive ideas do you have to combat the problem?

This is NOT a left versus right issue. I'm with you that the treatment of women in other societies is horrible. I resent the left being blamed for it. That's scapegoating.

[Fragony]

Left-wingers advocate equal treatment of women

Maybe in a day that never was, or very very long ago, the left will do everything for the ultra-orthodox, and throw a gay parade each year so they can keep pretending and moan a bit about the lack of women in key positions. The rest of the year they leave a slippery trail all the way to the mosk.

[Adrian II]

edit: homegrown madness, the editor of the gay-courant's reputatiom was destroyed by the left because he published some texts from the one, Tariq Ramadan, hero of the left, that aren't quite in line with what he tells them [..]

What have you been smoking now? Henk Krol is in charge of his paper as always and he has been totally vindicated. It's Tariq Ramadan who has been fired, both by the city of Rotterdam and by the Erasmus university. And it's the reputation of the alderman who hired Ramadan that has been totally destroyed; even his own party now wants him to step down.

It must be bliss to live in your little cocoon and make things up without bothering with the outside world. Oh teh lefty threat, oh teh fifth column, oh teh decline of liberty.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Maybe in a day that never was, or very very long ago, the left will do everything for the ultra-orthodox, and throw a gay parade each year so they can keep pretending and moan a bit about the lack of women in key positions. The rest of the year they leave a slippery trail all the way to the mosk.

I'll take this as a concession of all your points. There's no debate happening here, merely a statement of your opinions of the left, which you're entitled to have, but are not accurate reflections of the left.

[Fragony]

I'll take this as a concession of all your points. There's no debate happening here, merely a statement of your opinions of the left, which you're entitled to have, but are not accurate reflections of the left.

And the opinion of the article and drumroll........ topic!

"Now they say it is racist to intervene. They're so frightened of being called an Islamophobe, they will defend the right of men to force women to be shackled. They smugly declare that ‘we haven't got the right to impose our values on another culture' and think themselves liberal when they do it."

See what's happening? They are afraid of excommunication, there can be no doubt. PPD.

What have you been smoking now? Henk Krol is in charge of his paper as always and he has been totally vindicated. It's Tariq Ramadan who has been fired, both by the city of Rotterdam and by the Erasmus university. And it's the reputation of the alderman who hired Ramadan that has been totally destroyed; even his own party now wants him to step down.

Didn't get away with that one hehe, much to my amusement. This was a little too much truth for altering, bbut boy did they try, and boy did they try hard.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I'm sorry but it's hypocrisy of the highest magnitude. If 'celebrating diversity' means condoning the rape, multilation, murder and subjegation of women just because they follow a certain religion and that's OK, then they can stick thier multiculturism where the sun don't shine.

It shouldn't be a party politcal issue but sadly it is.

I'm getting the impression I didn't read the same article as yourself. It's not the opinion of one man. He exposes the schziod mindset of the liberal left.

I agree that one person shouldn't be used to tar a whole belief system. The trouble is it's endemic in the UK today. From the government to sixth form debating societies.

Making excuses for barbarism is just that. Making excuses.

I have to agree completely.

I said this once before:

I don't believe in freedom of religion, I believe in tollerance and forgiveness, because that is what my religion teaches.

To that I will add:

I do not believe in cultural equality, I believe in the respect for other cultures, because that is what my culture teaches.

The left have spent so much time handwringing over the past they have now lost all moral courage.

[Meneldil]

A while ago, the left ideal was to promote values such as freedom, equality, human-rights, education, dignity, emancipation. Doing so sometimes could only be done through harsh measures, but in the end, it was for a 'greater-good' (whether you believe in it or not, and whether it was a possible aim or not).

Now, most of the left-wing is just about not giving a crap about anything in order to gather votes from everybody. Political liberalism got overwhelmed by economical liberalism, and the whole Enlightenment idea has been replaced by cultural laissez-faire.

I blame 1968.

[Askthepizzaguy]

And the opinion of the article and drumroll........ topic!

Yes, and the opinion in the article is that left-wingers (as a whole, presumably, but I'll even give the author "majority" for the sake of argument) support and condone the abuse of women, rape, and murder.

It's so patently false and absurd that it defies description.

"Now they say it is racist to intervene. They're so frightened of being called an Islamophobe, they will defend the right of men to force women to be shackled. They smugly declare that ‘we haven't got the right to impose our values on another culture' and think themselves liberal when they do it."

See what's happening? They are afraid of excommunication, there can be no doubt. PPD.

Who is "they"? I want names. And more than just one name. Let's name and shame these specific people, rather than liberalism as a whole.

[Fragony]

Yes, and the opinion in the article is that left-wingers (as a whole, presumably, but I'll even give the author "majority" for the sake of argument) support and condone the abuse of women, rape, and murder.

It's so patently false and absurd that it defies description.



Who is "they"? I want names. And more than just one name. Let's name and shame these specific people, rather than liberalism as a whole.

Can't just decide that something is patently false and absurd, we aren't setting out the party line we are discussing the reality of leftists supporting the abuse of women. So, why do you think that leftists support the abuse of women? Are they confused? Are they scared?

[Askthepizzaguy]

I can see that the direction this discussion is going in is not debate, but opining.

As such, I will leave the editorials to the pundits and bow out, my arguments unrefuted and largely ignored, as is my call for civility and an end to pointless and baseless partisanship. Good day, gentlemen, enjoy your smearing.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I can see that the direction this discussion is going in is not debate, but opining.

As such, I will leave the editorials to the pundits and bow out, my arguments unrefuted and largely ignored, as is my call for civility and an end to pointless and baseless partisanship. Good day, gentlemen, enjoy your smearing.

Oh, get off your high horse.

The argument is simple: In countries like Iran women are abused because of religious opinion. A hundred years ago this would have been intollerable, today it is excused as "cultural difference".

[Fragony]

I can see that the direction this discussion is going in is not debate, but opining.

As such, I will leave the editorials to the pundits and bow out, my arguments unrefuted and largely ignored, as is my call for civility and an end to pointless and baseless partisanship. Good day, gentlemen, enjoy your smearing.

'it isn't true' is not an argument it's not even an opinion, it's a statement.

it isn't true because -> argument

presto

[InsaneApache]

Who is "they"? I want names. And more than just one name. Let's name and shame these specific people, rather than liberalism as a whole.

I already mentioned Germaine Greer. The article goes on to mention more but then you'd know that if you'd read it.

From the article....

But look on the bright side for too long, and you will be blinded by the sun. For all the qualifications, the stubborn fact remains that mainstream opinion does not consider the oppression of women a pressing concern when it is done in the name of culture or religion, particularly in the name of once-subordinate cultures and religions. The misogyny they generate does not move hearts or stir passions. Governments that stifle half their populations do not face boycotts or demonstrations outside their embassies, motions of condemnation at international conferences or opprobrium in everyday political discourse.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

If you're accusing left-wingers of condoning rape, mutilation, murder, and subjugation of women,

No, I think he was accusing you. You specifically.

The hypocrisy of the left.....

People are hypocritical by nature.

I agree on the whole, the obligation to respect another culture ceases to exist when they don't respect their own citizens. It's not easy to change culture though.

[Tribesman]

it isn't true because

....fragony wrote it.

Oh teh lefty threat, oh teh fifth column, oh teh decline of liberty.

Come on Adrian , you missed out oh teh Muslims, oh teh immigrants and oh teh poofs.

As for the article , what a pile of crap , I doubt I have seen so many outright lies presented in a single article before , it really is an astounding feat that. Well done Cohen.

[Adrian II]

'it isn't true' is not an argument it's not even an opinion, it's a statement.

it isn't true because -> argument

presto

Most of you, including the OP, can't even read. It's actually a very good article that says something completely different from what the OP was trying to insinuate in his usual biased style. Here is what it says:

There is a danger of generalising from the particular fury the media have directed at Benson and Stangroom. So I should say that I do not need to be told that religion comes in many forms, not all of them onerous. I accept unreservedly that religion can be, as Marx said, "the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions". Clearly, many liberal-minded people would not have joined the critics in shouting down Benson and Stangroom; they would have whole-heartedly agreed that the repression of women must be opposed in all circumstances. Excellent journalists at the BBC, Independent, Guardian, Observer and Sunday Times produce powerful reports about female genital mutilation and "honour killings" based on the work of NGOs such as Human Rights Watch or the Centre for Social Cohesion.

But look on the bright side for too long, and you will be blinded by the sun. For all the qualifications, the stubborn fact remains that mainstream opinion does not consider the oppression of women a pressing concern when it is done in the name of culture or religion, particularly in the name of once-subordinate cultures and religions. The misogyny they generate does not move hearts or stir passions. Governments that stifle half their populations do not face boycotts or demonstrations outside their embassies, motions of condemnation at international conferences or opprobrium in everyday political discourse.

This reflects my own experience. I would even go further and state that it is mostly Christians who actively seek accomodation with (radical) islam. On the international scene we have witnessed the cooperation of reborn American Republicans, the Pope and islamic regimes in order to curb sex education and prevent the use of contraceptives. In the UK there is the Church of England that seeks to align itself with muslim organisations and opinions constantly. In my own country orthodox muslims and christians are protesting in unison against 'sexually provocative' advertisements (meaning your average underwear ad). Most of all however, I laugh at the Pavlovian drooling displayed in several posts above. It isn't reasoning, it's mere posturing - exactly as the Pizzaman says.

[Fragony]

.Come on Adrian , you missed out oh teh Muslims, oh teh immigrants and oh teh poofs.

Your mind is playing ticks on you Tribes, making you see things that aren't there

Most of you, including the OP, can't even read

Didn't even try, no need because it's England

[Vladimir]

What a wasted topic. The question begs an interesting discussion yet the first post throws it away by making it a partisan issue. If you look for hypocrisy you'll find it everywhere.

[Adrian II]

Your mind is playing ticks on you Tribes, making you see things that aren't there

Oh ticks, schticks. Where is your evidence that the reputation of Henk Krol (chief editor of our largest gay magazine who succesfully tackled Ramadan over his homophobia) has been 'destroyed'? He has been vindicated on all sides, for freak's sake. Will you be lying through your teeth whenever it serves the great 'cause'?

[Tribesman]

Your mind is playing ticks on you Tribes, making you see things that aren't there

Would you like a selection of quotes from yourself again frag?
Go on it would be funny to have you moaning again that people quoting your own words is just so unfair on you and makes you look silly.