Why are the Ptolemaioi such a hated faction?

[Mallios]

Kleopatra was very beautiful, as this ancient painting proves. Also you can see here that inbreeding already started to spread within the Galatian Klerouchoi, severly hempering Egypt's ability to withstand the Roman threat:

Ah yes, but analyzing the painting, it seems in the Galatians case to have inadvertantly created unstoppable super soldiers

[Subotan]

Subotan, I recommend you take a look at coins from the time before you say she is one of the most beautiful women in history, from the coins we can see she was actually quite ugly by modern standards.

It's just that the Romans liked that sort of thing... *shudders*

Modern standards? I'm glad to know that I can rely on modern society to help me with who I find attractive, rather than personal judgement.
Besides, don't all the sources say that it was her charm that was beautiful, rather than her appearance?

Kleopatra was very beautiful, as this ancient painting proves. Also you can see here that inbreeding already started to spread within the Galatian Klerouchoi, severly hempering Egypt's ability to withstand the Roman threat:

Well, there was only one indomitable village free from Roman control. What do you expect?

[fleaza]

judging a persons looks on a cartoon that is extremely inaccurate historically isnt very smart imo.

and saying ptolemy deserved alexanders kingdom...if alexander was assassinated it was almost certainly ptolemy who had a part in it. he was head of security you see.

i like to conquer alexandria not start with it. also, i dont like the starting positions. israel is so vulnerable at the begining and asia minor is even more so.

[satalexton]

i usually abandon those positions and consolidate north africa....then it's a matter of throwing out keltoi, thorakitai and phalanx until the kardonechoi comes knocking.....

[Blxz]

Also, considering they are responsible for allegedly one of the most beautiful women in history

I love sexy inbred people. I only watch the movie deliverance for the duelling banjo's and that sweet sexy inbred kid. (who sadly I might add is not inbred and actually looks that way natuarally. AND can't play the banjo, someone else is doing the old reach-around).

"Squeal like a piggy boy"
"Wheeeeeeee"

Ahh, I get off to this stuff.

EDIT: god damn it. I had this big nicely edited extra stuff that was very informative and interesting, then my browser froze. I redid it with a piece about how my current ptolemy campaign is going, then browser froze. instead now, you guys can just live with my inane crap about piggies and banjo's.

[ARCHIPPOS]

Supposedly Ptolemaic Egypt was THE sweetest diadoch kingdom to rule though...
Cohesive,wealthy and with secured borders from three sides ... not only that but the Ptolemaic rule was highly bureaucratical and well organised...

[Fluvius Camillus]

I don't hate the Ptolemaioi, I hate no faction.

And I hear people about hating them because they become too strong. Well people, that is the reason I am such a blitzer in most peoples eyes. A lot of people keep telling me that blitz ruins EB, well I dont know what you prefer, fighting most factions of the game because AI has not expanded so much yet. Or streams of fullstacks from the same faction over and over again....

~Fluvius

[The General]

I don't hate the Ptolemaioi, I hate no faction.

I don't hate, or even dislike any other faction except for Arche Seleukeia on steroids.

Few things are as rewarding as a game you've been playing for two-three days ruined by an attack by a maniacal Arche Seleukeia that is kicking the doodoo out of everyone (Ptolemaioi, Pahlava, Saka Rauka, Eleutheroi border provinces) and which insists on adding your name to its list of soon-to-be-vanquished foes.

Getting attacked by Ptolemies is something you can anticipate and usually, deal with. Unless you're playing as Hayasdan, it's quite likely you're going to meet them only on one relatively narrow front (the Qarthadastim in Africa, Baktria/Pahlava in Assyria/Mesopotamia, European factions in southern Anatolia) and you can just keep pushing. Trying to defeat Arche Seleukeia...

If only there was something close to the system in EUs, and the occasional period of peace. I admit I do not have the endurance to fight against an endless stream of stacks all the way to friggin' India like in the case of my recently-abandoned Makedonia game.

[Ibrahim]

Honestly, I don't know why anyone would hate to fight the ptolemioi-what is more awesome than an underdog, but wisly led, faction vs an elite spamming empire? it has a Star Wars quality to it. I had a boat load of fun fighting them as saba; I haven't had a more challenging, dangerous, and brutal fight in the various TW engines, save my lakhmid campaigns against the sassanid traitors in IJ.*


*ok, so I tend to play arabian ones first-y'got a problem? and yes, the sassanids usually start the trouble

[Blxz]

Whats IJ? I am on the look out for new mods. Any good?

[Ibrahim]

Whats IJ? I am on the look out for new mods. Any good?

Imperium julianorum: its a submod of IBFD. you can find it at the twcenter under INVASIO BARBARORVM: SOMNIVM APOSTATAE IVLIANI. the latest version is IJ3 (still a beta though). and yes, its very, very good-I helped research one of the factions myself (take a guess). its no EB, but it sure as heck comes close.


anyways, on topic: I still don't see ar eal reson why the ptolemioi are to be hated as an IA faction; they are indeed a worthy challenge/adversary.

and darn, this drew brees guy is driving me up the wall-what the heck is with him?

[Subotan]

judging a persons looks on a cartoon that is extremely inaccurate historically isnt very smart imo.

...And judging an entire dynasty by how they act (Mostly ahistorically I may add) in a computer game is even less smart.

and saying ptolemy deserved alexanders kingdom...if alexander was assassinated it was almost certainly ptolemy who had a part in it. he was head of security you see.

I didn't say that. I said that the fact that they were able to acquire and hold onto that amount of land for such a long time deserves respect and admiration.

i like to conquer alexandria not start with it. also, i dont like the starting positions. israel is so vulnerable at the begining and asia minor is even more so.

...Which makes them a challenge, and is essentially why a lot of people love to play as them.

EDIT: god damn it. I had this big nicely edited extra stuff that was very informative and interesting, then my browser froze. I redid it with a piece about how my current ptolemy campaign is going, then browser froze. instead now, you guys can just live with my inane crap about piggies and banjo's.

Way ahead of you. I spent an hour writing a post on some other forum, but my computer crashed when I was writing the second to last sentence.

[Blxz]

Tall poppy syndrome.

The ptolmies have a good chance of being strong and powerful. People like the underdog and hate people, countries or abstract ideas that become too strong or dominant.

Same reason I like the Hai, people hate Rome and america is the most disliked country globally.
Its not that I appreciate the impossible to pronounce names of units, that Rome is evil and that america is populated by generally annoying people who get worse when they are in groups of 2 or more. Its all about that little urge in us to hope that the underdog David will triumph over the giant goliath.

Tall poppy syndrome people. Thats what it equates to in the end.

[Subotan]

Tall poppy syndrome people. Thats what it equates to in the end.

I can understand people's dislike of the Yellow Fever, as it is a phenomenon prominent in many strategy games, but when that dislike is carried over into reality, and besmirches and insults the reputations and achievements of real people, it has in my opinion gone too far.

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

How can anybody really think that somebody was judged by the cartoon I posted?

[Subotan]

How can anybody really think that somebody was judged by the cartoon I posted?

I was going to mention that, but I thought it so obvious as not to bother

[Kevin]

Why are we talking about Cleopatra?

[Duguntz]

Why? simple : they use pikes and sarrissa, because they wear clothes and armours!... nothing equals sweboz's clubs and axes when they run to the battle with THEIR sarrissas in the fresh air! hahahahaha

Behold the return of the Swebozez!

cheers to all of you guys! I shall bring my worgozez back on the battlefield in october!

[Duguntz]

oh, and another reason... That can apply to Sabba as well : The earth is made of 80 percent of water. They choose to live in the desert... O_0

-No more comment needed...-


P.s. As some people on the forum tend to get offended pretty fast, I feel the obligation to remind that this comment is intended to be a joke and give some smile and thus is not to be considered as a factor to start another debat with somebody who could be over proud of his favourite faction : Ptolemaioi

If somebody is offended and gives any reason to proove me that the Ptolemaioi are the worthiest nation, everything I answer him should and will be considered as IRONIC. (^_^)

(Hey, I could almost become lawyer with more warning like that! hahahahahahaha!)

Cheers to all!

[Moros]

oh, and another reason... That can apply to Sabba as well : The earth is made of 80 percent of water. They choose to live in the desert... O_0

The Saba' didn't live in the desert. And they had more than enough water thanks to a great dam they built themselves.

[Duguntz]

Ha, on this one I confess, i do not know the geographic situation of the region the sabba lived in and i spoke out of what I believed! I thus give my umble apologize... for the Sabba, the ptolemaioi aren't included in those excuses!

cheers!

[Andronikos]

The Saba' didn't live in the desert. And they had more than enough water thanks to a great dam they built themselves.

Thanks, I wanted to ask about it. (But even more info wouldn't do harm.)

And just for clarification Egyptians didn't live in desert, they lived near Nile which was one of the most fertile regions in that time. Neither did Makedonians and Greeks who lived mostly in the Alexandria region near Mediterranean Sea and their presence made Egypt a true Mediterranean nation.

And finally I like deserts. And desserts too.

[Moros]

Thanks, I wanted to ask about it. (But even more info wouldn't do harm.)

Well most of Yemen is a monsoon affected area, so one could hardly call it a desert. Especially in the days of ancient Arabia when the desert had not spread that much yet. It's spread had already started though. However this is not compelety true for the more northern parts, where Maryab used to be. But due to the ancient climate it was far from a desert. And great constructions, dams, irrigation systems,... helped at keeping it that way.

Same is also true for the Sahara IIRC, which was much less sandy and smaller in ancient times. The spreading of desert or desertification is btw something that is happening at scary rates these days as well. Ghana being an example.

Also imo, I think it's wrong to call egyptians desert people as well, as their life was focused on and around the nile. The true desert people would have been mostly nomads, as that is the only way of life on the steppes or in the desert. Berbers, and many other libyans could truely be called desert people. This was of course true for the scenitae/bedouins living in Arabia. Most famous desert tribes/people form EB's time would be the Qedar and the Nabataeans. The latter migrated north and settled in modern day Jordan, though because of the climate. And of course the Minaeans, a people famous for their trade caravans going from all the way south of Arabia to Egypt and Syria and back. Which they had been doing at least half a millenium before our game starts.

Now you got me rambling. Either way in EBII the deserts in Arabia will have some unique buildings and other things to represent the real desert people and their lives, influences,... For example the incense routes will be represented this time. But I'm not going to spill any more beans, I've been telling way to much lately. I'm getting soft. I guess it's the lack of an occultus sig or something. Gah!

[Dewirix]

Maybe the way to counter the Ptolies swallowing the AS or vice versa is to give them different barracks. As things stand, either side can start pumping out high-tier troops as soon as they take a city off the other.

Perhaps the Ptolies could share the Baktria/Macedonia line of barracks.

That said, it's not so much the elites that worry me so much as the endless phalanx spam. Given the width of a unit, 10 or more in a single stack make a pretty tricky proposition as they're tough to outflank.

That's why in my Epeiros campaign I'm bridge-hogging outside Tarsos, I'm fed up of being on the downslope even in defensive battles.

[antisocialmunky]

:)

[Blxz]

:)

Forgive me if I am wrong, but I thought Caesar's child with Cleopatra the Slut was named Caesarion not Ptolemy XV.

[Subotan]

Wow, maybe they should have been Pharaohs of Kentucky.

[Raygereio]

Wel, at least their family tree is one of the clearest ones I've ever seen.
And don't you just hate when you have to scroll horizontally? No such thing necessary here.

Forgive me if I am wrong, but I thought Caesar's child with Cleopatra the Slut was named Caesarion not Ptolemy XV.

My encyclopedia says: Ptolemy XV Caesar.
Full name Ptolemy Philopator Philometor Caesar.
Nicknamed: Caesarion.

[Andronikos]

family tree

OMG It's really wild with children of Ptolemy V and VIII. That's perhaps the only thing I dislike about Ptolemies. And traits of later kings.

[Fluvius Camillus]

:)

So the famed Cleopatra did both her brothers too? Yuck, I'm getting images of the little brat seen in HBO Rome.

Also the part around Cleopatra Selene and descendants is a bit nasty

A miracle that Cleopatra (the most known one), turned out to be such a beautiful woman as told. Were there a lot of cases about deformed or slightly handicapped Ptolemies known?

Thanks for sharing the picture!

~Fluvius