Poll: "Fiercest" Barbarians?

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Thread: Fiercest Barbarians

  1. #1

    Default Fiercest Barbarians

    Which "Barbarian" faction has the bravest, steadiest, strongest and scariest troops of all? By this I mean, which faction has a roster selection which allows the fielding of the best elites together with large numbers of the best and most cost effective line troops?

    Here's how they rank in my book:

    1. Sweboz - Ceteris Paribus, the Sweboz roster might be limited in diversity, but it allows by far a decent range of very brave, steady and disciplined troops. Formations are the tightest of all the barbarians, and defensive focus is certainly not neglected - the only problem is a lack of good armour for all top tiers, but they make the difference with being cheap. "Dugundiz" are one of the best and most cost effective Spearmen in the game. Their swordsmen, too, while being slightly more expensive than Celtic Swordsmen and less numerous, are man for man superior and better line troops, while all troops have one of the highest morale ratings in the game

    On "Strength" the Sweboz have a decent range of good assault troops, while having perhaps the best "scary" range of troops in the game. Having Wargozez walking around behind the enemy line will assuredly deal a devastating blow to enemy morale. That said the Sweboz lack a good equivalent to the "Gaesatae".

    Overall though, Sweboz warriors must be kept inside dense woods, where they get attack bonuses and are better protected from missiles, to which they are extremely vulnerable.

    (1 to 5 stars)

    Bravery - *****
    Steadiness - *****
    Strength - ***
    Scariness - ****

    2. Getai - The troops have perhaps the highest morale in the game. They also get the best assault and skirmisher roster in the game, while their long range missiles are varied and second to no other Western enemy, though they lack the steadiness of the Sweboz on the battlefield. They might have good "phalanx" troops, and access to Hoplitai both in Custom Battle mode or as auxiliaries in the game, but these troops lack the flexibility of the Sweboz Dugundiz. They make for it with a wide range of troops with high lethality and attack though relatively low discipline and formation tightness, which results in perhaps the most fluid and flexible line of the game, but also the most unpredictable and fragile one. Like all "barbarians", the Getai must be wary of missiles, but their high tier troops are better equipped to deal with them than the Sweboz, while their lower tier is cheap and replaceable.

    On the "scary" factor the Getai are lacking. The only trick they may resort to are flaming arrows in abundance, but otherwise they have no special "scary" troops that can shake enemy morale during an engagement. They have to kill them all or more before the enemy finally routs.

    Bravery - *****
    Steadiness - ***
    Strength - *****
    Scariness - *

    3. Gallic Factions (Aedui & Arverni) - Gauls are a bit of a tricky bunch. They have perhaps the strongest barbarian roster, but they also have the lowest morale and discipline of all barbarian factions. They are also lacking in ranged punch, and their assault troops are good but not phenomenal, but they make for it with having Gaesatae, which unfortunately also have a restricted role in their armies; their roster is also less cost effective, but they have the best cavalry of all "barbarian" factions, except maybe the Lusotannan.

    Formation tightness and morale are low across the board for line troops, while steadiness is weak - Gallic units tend to waver quickly. Scariness is strong but restricted, while "assault" is nothing phenomenal... Perhaps Teceitos, which they lose in Time of Soldiers, and regionals. They lack good AP infantry, while their later professionals and their top tier units are very good, brave and disciplined but also not cost effective. I remembed it drained my whole economy just to have a single full stack of professionals during an Arverni campaign.

    Overall:

    Bravery - ***
    Steadiness - **
    Strength - *****
    Scariness - ***

    4. Casse - Casse have the weaknesses of Gallic factions while not sharing much of their boni. Their elites are also good, but very expensive and limited - they lack Gaesatae, but make for it with a cadre of assorted "Chanting" and "eagle-bearing" units that inspire their morale. The majority of their line is composed of the lowest tier Celtic troops, the Gaeroas, Botroas and Brythonic regionals, who are all lacking in discipline and are not that great either. Without enough people to keep their morale up, they rout quickly, and their formation tightness also leaves to be desired.

    They also lack cavalry, and while there are one or two people who might have found an use for Chariots, their bodyguard is virtually useless. They also lack outstanding assault troops (Teceitos only, again) and have virtually nothing but basic missile units.

    Bravery - ****
    Steadiness - **
    Strength - ***
    Scariness - **

    Scariness

    I haven't played Lusotannan yet so I won't comment on them, but you're welcome.

  2. #2
    iudex thervingiorum Member athanaric's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fiercest Barbarians

    Saba.

    (voted for Swêboz of course)

    Regarding your comment on Gallic cavalry: IMO all barbarian factions have pretty good cavalry, although the Casse have to rely on units that are recruitable only in one or two provinces each.

    I would say that perhaps the Getai have the best cavalry roster, since they, as the only Western faction, can recruit factional HAs including elite HA/lancers with 18 (!!) morale. Tarabostes are a little weaker than Remi, Germanic, or Iberian elite cavalry, but the Ktistai more than make up for it.




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  3. #3
    Descendant of great Herakles Member Torvus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fiercest Barbarians

    the Lusotannan are barbarians that don't act like barbarians. Their units are disciplined and have high morale. they have the best heavy cavalry in the west. so, personally, they have to be the fiercest "barbarians".
    Last edited by Torvus; 09-17-2009 at 21:00.

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  4. #4
    That's "Chopper" to you, bub. Member DaciaJC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fiercest Barbarians

    Quote Originally Posted by A Terribly Harmful Name View Post
    2. Getai - The troops have perhaps the highest morale in the game. They also get the best assault and skirmisher roster in the game, while their long range missiles are varied and second to no other Western enemy, though they lack the steadiness of the Sweboz on the battlefield. They might have good "phalanx" troops, and access to Hoplitai both in Custom Battle mode or as auxiliaries in the game, but these troops lack the flexibility of the Sweboz Dugundiz. They make for it with a wide range of troops with high lethality and attack though relatively low discipline and formation tightness, which results in perhaps the most fluid and flexible line of the game, but also the most unpredictable and fragile one. Like all "barbarians", the Getai must be wary of missiles, but their high tier troops are better equipped to deal with them than the Sweboz, while their lower tier is cheap and replaceable.

    On the "scary" factor the Getai are lacking. The only trick they may resort to are flaming arrows in abundance, but otherwise they have no special "scary" troops that can shake enemy morale during an engagement. They have to kill them all or more before the enemy finally routs.

    Bravery - *****
    Steadiness - ***
    Strength - *****
    Scariness - *
    I agree with the majority of your points, but I would give more credit to the stability of a Getic line. You mentioned Dugundiz as being versatile - the Getikoi Stratiotai (light phalanx) is better in terms of defense and morale, and they are equipped with a sica as well. Komatai Thorakitai Stratiotai (heavy phalanx) are much better in every respect and are excellent line-holders. As both of these units maintain a tight formation, a Getic line can attain a relatively high density, while the less disciplined shock infantry can hold position behind the main line until they engage in flanking maneuvers. I would rate their steadiness as ****.
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  5. #5
    Member Member ARCHIPPOS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fiercest Barbarians

    i'm surprised nobody counts the nomads as true "barbarians" (=whatever that means)...
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    Wannabe Member The General's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fiercest Barbarians

    Quote Originally Posted by ARCHIPPOS View Post
    i'm surprised nobody counts the nomads as true "barbarians" (=whatever that means)...
    Methinks it means those factions that share the Barbarian culture.

    I voted for the Sweboz, the fierce, brave, scary men from the Woods in the North, who are also surprisingly steady at the battlefield.

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  7. #7
    Member Member WinsingtonIII's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fiercest Barbarians

    I had to go for Getai, if anything is fierce, it's a guy charging at you with a falx. Plus, they have one of the most versatile rosters in the game.

    I agree with anatharic that they might very well actually have the best cavalry of the "barbarians" simply because no other can counter an armored horse archer like the Ktistai.
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  8. #8
    Satalextos Basileus Seron Member satalexton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fiercest Barbarians

    You missed out the Romans, mate.




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    Villiage Idiot Member antisocialmunky's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fiercest Barbarians

    Getai Merc out Celtic Naked Spearman and chop everything to ribbons.
    Last edited by antisocialmunky; 09-18-2009 at 01:29.
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  10. #10
    Member Member Kevin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fiercest Barbarians

    Quote Originally Posted by satalexton View Post
    You missed out the Romans, mate.
    True, they were fierce enough to be able to defeat the Macedonians, after all.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Fiercest Barbarians

    Quote Originally Posted by A Terribly Harmful Name View Post
    That said the Sweboz lack a good equivalent to the "Gaesatae".
    Woithiz Watha: not good or not a Gaesatae equivalent?

    Quote Originally Posted by A Terribly Harmful Name View Post
    and while there are one or two people who might have found an use for Chariots, their bodyguard is virtually useless.
    The Casse bodyguard is their best unit as far as I am concerned. Cidainh are really badass, fun to use, and unlike eastern chariots they don't run amok.
    I think I get at least as much kills using Casse bodyguards than with Saka bodyguards.

  12. #12
    Guest Aemilius Paulus's Avatar
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    Exclamation Re: Fiercest Barbarians

    Quote Originally Posted by satalexton View Post
    You missed out the Romans, mate.
    And the Makedonians, for actually holding on for three wars against Rome - not bad. Remember, Makedonians were barbarian, tribal culture - even Greeks considered them barbarous.



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    Last edited by Aemilius Paulus; 09-18-2009 at 04:53.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Fiercest Barbarians

    A fully upgraded (4+ chevrons) Sweboz army with a forager and winter warrior general with pretty much level everyone.

    Also note that in the late game Casse have some of the best cavalry in the west.
    Last edited by Olaf The Great; 09-18-2009 at 05:23.
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    Member Member Kevin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fiercest Barbarians

    Quote Originally Posted by Olaf The Great View Post
    A fully upgraded (4+ chevrons) Sweboz army with a forager and winter warrior general with pretty much level everyone.
    Winter warrior? What's that?

  15. #15
    master of the wierd people Member Ibrahim's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fiercest Barbarians

    Sweboz by far:

    they/their sister cultures are the only ones to my knowlege who nailed enemy heads to tree trunks-no other people can be that fierce/sadistic
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    Member Member Raygereio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fiercest Barbarians

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
    Winter warrior? What's that?
    From export_VnVs.txt:
    Winter Campaigning Not Restricted
    "Historically, there were seasons for campaigning. This varied depending on climate and custom. Winter was usually not a time for armies to be on the march. However, this man and his people use this to their advantage, and are not burdened by these restrictions."

    The Sweboz, Sauromatae, Saka and Pahlava will get this trait and won't get a movement penalty in the winter.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Fiercest Barbarians

    In my campaigns the Sewbs always crush the gauls so they must be the best of them..

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  18. #18
    Member Member Andronikos's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fiercest Barbarians

    Casse. Sure, they don't have the strongest armies in the world, but they are really fierce and scary. Even Gauls considered them barbaric. Painted and scared bodies, heroic culture, fearless champions. Their basic units like Lugoae, Bataroas, Gaeroas or Gaelaiche look a way scarier than their Gallic cousins. Goildic units are not their factional, but they are in their natural expansion region and they add to their scariness. And who says that Casse lack strong line unit hasn't met Milnaht yet. They can be recruited on British isles too IIRC.

    Sweboz were my second choice, but I finally choose Casse, because they are a little underestimated.

    And I have to add that I voted by the fierce or scary factor, if I considered ability to field strong and versatile armies with good line troops, it would be a Gauls vs. Getai duel.



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    Wannabe Member The General's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fiercest Barbarians

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibrahim View Post
    Sweboz by far:

    they/their sister cultures are the only ones to my knowlege who nailed enemy heads to tree trunks-no other people can be that fierce/sadistic
    Well, the Celts (Gauls at least) did collect heads from their enemies and place them on the vertical posts of doorways... Of course, doors are much less fierce than tree(trunk)s.
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  20. #20
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    Default Re: Fiercest Barbarians

    Lusotann, bravery is good, relatively numerous and easy to get, their formations maybe isn't as tight, but they got really disciplined army that could overmatch their Romaioi and Kardechoi counterparts. Their weakness is complete lack of scary units...
    (I Vote Lusotann)

    But the most effective is Sweboz of course... especially when see their (the Luso's) sky-high upkeep that could feed more pantodapoi phalangitai....

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    iudex thervingiorum Member athanaric's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fiercest Barbarians

    I'm still wondering if it is legitimate to count the units labelled as "Iberian" among the Lusotannan. IIRC, the Lusotannan get them from regional barracks, not from native ones.

    That said, the Lusotannan have some truly excellent units (even without Iberi Lanceari), but are a bit lacking in "barbarian-ness" IMO.




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  22. #22
    Member Member Bucefalo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fiercest Barbarians

    IMHO this is a silly discussion. I don´t see how some "barbarian" faction was more or less "fierce" than the other, are they supposed to be like animals? So the Sweboz are the big grizzly bear, and the lusotannan are the wolf?

    Then the romans are the homo sapiens, if you get what i mean.

  23. #23
    Member Member keiskander's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fiercest Barbarians

    Scariness for the Getai are rather low facing Drapanai would be rather scary.
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    Villiage Idiot Member antisocialmunky's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fiercest Barbarians

    Drapnai, Bastarnae, naked celts, horse archers, and good heavy cav. :-p
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  25. #25

    Default Re: Fiercest Barbarians

    I would also say the Getai cavalry is the best, considerably better than the lusotannan cavalry. IMHO the lusotannan mounted skirmishers are crap, as are all mounted skirmishers

    And the Getai have HA - elite HA/spear Ktistai (which are teh greatest) and good somewhat cost effective allround tarabostes melee cavalry. And the Thracian light cavalry which they can recruit is also good, really the best mounted skirmisher in the game, because they can function as medium cavalry also.

  26. #26

    Default Re: Fiercest Barbarians

    Casse are very under-rated it would seem. Especially those chariots. No other faction gets a scary general!

  27. #27
    Arrogant Ashigaru Moderator Ludens's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: Fiercest Barbarians

    Quote Originally Posted by satalexton View Post
    You missed out the Romans, mate.
    I think some people have misunderstood the motto "Everyone is a barbarian to someone".
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  28. #28

    Default Re: Fiercest Barbarians

    None of those factions scare me...

    The only factions I ever have severe trouble with are my fellow Greeks and Carthage (due to Elite African Pike spam).

    Casse are very under-rated it would seem. Especially those chariots. No other faction gets a scary general!
    Casse are crap. I use Casse for target practice for my Cretans...
    Last edited by IrishHitman; 09-18-2009 at 15:23.
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  29. #29

    Default Re: Fiercest Barbarians

    Gauls have some units that scare the enemy, yet the rest of their army does not really give me the creeps they seem to be somewhat the "good guys".
    Lusotani ambush all the time which can make it pretty scary to pass through their territory but once you fight them they are not particularity scary in a proper barbarian manner as they either look like boy scouts or far too civilized.

    Casse units on the other hand often have woad all over them thus seem a bit crazy and scary in a barbaric manner they may not have woad painted Naked dudes but afaik a lot of units that wear a shirt in gaul don't in britain mainly to show their body art. plus the presence of more chariots as chariots are scary whereas not in a barbaric manner ;) last but not least the casse have their Champions who have a sort of "scary" and "terrifying" overtone. on the other hand I always associate Casse with a lot of water and mountains which somewhat takes their "fierceness" away for me :(

    Getai have the best roster of all "barbarians" that said I'd like to add that they don't have factional fear units(or do they?) which somewhat a blow. Imho they are a bit to civilised to get the "fiercest barbarians" eg. horse archers are effective and not fierce in a barbarian sort of way. they lack this crazy look in the eyes with the exception of the drapanai, <- they are fierce! when I was a soldier I would rather run away from a wild dude with a falx than a naked Frenchmen, provided off course I wear trousers and a good belt and as general they are equally scary as you know if they get to your troops they will cut them to little bits :(. another thing that makes then seem to be the second most "fierce Barbarian" is their location in a pretty dark area (in the opinion of the Coast dwelling "civilized" factions) they have their own territory behind which the total wilderness begins where the tribes are free and wild ...same also goes for the sweboz tho more extreme. which leads us to my personal "fiercest barbarians"

    the sweboz: they dwell in the dark and dense woods and marches of Germania. It is not safe for a roman or Greek too travel these dark lands full of swamps, cold wind, wood demons and angry barbarians who come out of nowhere. they are without doubt the most "barbaric" "barbarian" faction after all. they are one of the few peoples who make massive use of clubs(now that's barbaric) even their levy troops are scary to a(very) small degree, Chatti youths storm viciously at thier foe with the unshaved beard obscuring their faces. their Generals fight on foot together with the other warriors they don't need horses as they don't intend to flee. the moral of the most units is better than that of the Celts which implies a certain braveness of barbarians. for truely scary units they have their (crappy) naked spearman which because of his dark body art looks much more terrifying than his celtic colegues the wargozez has to be considered somewhat a factional mercenary still i think they can go into this. in contrast to the naked fear people these guys have AP axes which is especially effective against southern invaders. as an extra one could count Basternoz falxmen and Lugian swordsmen who are armed with "scary" and"fierce" weapons as mentioned above.
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  30. #30
    Wannabe Member The General's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fiercest Barbarians

    Quote Originally Posted by IrishHitman View Post
    None of those factions scare me...

    The only factions I ever have severe trouble with are my fellow Greeks and Carthage (due to Elite African Pike spam).
    1. Pikemen
    2. AI opponent
    3. ?????
    4. Profit!

    Rinse 'n' repeat, eh.
    Last edited by The General; 09-18-2009 at 17:38.
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