Wales to the Empire? They'd have to be mad to even consider that.
If I was Welsh, I'd be insulted, the English don't want them, it seems, and neither do we.
Seriously, offering the Empire one of its old possessions would carry more weight I think.
Edit: Unlike the English negotiations, there are no established protocols. I would need the permission of the owner of any lands offered in a deal before consumating it. The King for the Royal Demesne, Steward Neufville for Antwerp and the like.
Yes, let's offer the Imperials Paris for a truce ! What a nice idea, Duc de Rohan !!
By the way, does the offer of the Senechal to let me recruit some mercenaries still stands ? I'll need them if we don't want to endanger the lives of the noblemen riding with me...
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I don't intend to give the Germans anything. We have the border well secured. The Pope has asked us to cease hostilities, but surely we can defend ourselves. Let the Germans bleed some more. They'll accept their defeat eventually. Every Knight should know defeat when it comes to him and not be ashamed to admit it. I don't like spending our florins just to keep the Germans mollified.
The lions sing and the hills take flight.
The moon by day, and the sun by night.
Blind woman, deaf man, jackdaw fool.
Let the Lord of Chaos rule.
—chant from a children's game heard in Great Aravalon, the Fourth Age
*Prince Henri’s standard and Page enters to join the council discussions*
My Lords,
My liege Prince Henri is currently in Metz but will shortly be leaving to join King Phillip and The Order to aid in the defence of Frankfurt.
Firstly, it is clear that we have made overtones to the Kaiser which have been rebuffed. Prince Henri states that peace will come at too high a price at this time and any such future negotiations should be postponed until the Kaiser has learned our nation will not capitulate to an exorbitant proposal.
The border should be maintained however and the large German army near Frankfurt must be compelled to leave its threatening position.
In order to do this the Prince suggests that the King’s army be kept in the field, clearly within our own borders but still either just outside or within a seasons march of Frankfurt.
Further to this, the garrison in Frankfurt is to be reduced…such military formations removed to join the Kings army…but not to such an extent as to affect public order in the city. This move is designed to try to entrap the Kaiser by enticing him to besiege Frankfurt, the Kaiser having made the first aggressive move will then be open to attack by the Kings army thereafter.
Such a counter strike must be made as immediately as possible so as to lessen the citizens discomfort.
Should the Kaisers army strike at our own Kings then he must be provided with sufficient force to utterly crush the Kaiser.
The Prince proposes that a policy of maintaining our Eastern border be enacted aggressively and any, and all, formations of German forces be met and destroyed as rapidly as possible. The Prince believes that the forces already in the upper and lower Rhine areas should be sufficient to the task if correctly distributed to ensure more balanced formations with not only noble cavalry but spears and archers of any kind available.
The Prince proposes that Militia be recruited to garrison cities and castles where possible but effort be made to ensure armies have at least two formations of spear troops of whatever type is available locally.
The Prince seconds the efforts of the Seneschal to uphold the edict from the Pope for Valencia, he also seconds his comments that we are to defend our own lands rather than impose more disfavour from the Pope by remaining in German held lands.
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There is merit to what Prince Henri suggests and it goes to the heart of a question raised by the Seneschal. My permission on who could take troops from Frankfurt was deliberate. It is the king's army in my view and no one elses. It is up to his majesty to decide what troops, minus the newest spear militia company, may depart the city. If I decided otherwise, then the king might fault me for allowing his troops to be taken without permission. Therefore I must offer him my assurance that on my word as Baron of Franconia, his rights are protected, as indeed any nobleman who enjoys the hospitality of Frankfurt.
Now I have heard a matter mentioned more than once and have not chosen to speak on it. I will do so now. The ownership of Frankfurt is not negotiable, as by the king's own words he said it shall not be given up for purposes of diplomacy. Joke about giving the Kaiser our capital all you like, but indeed Paris is the only city I would take in recompense for Frankfurt. And I think we all know his majesty would die before allowing that to happen.
Word has reached me that his Majesty has won a great victory over the Germans, which renders some of what Prince Henri said moot.
Still the Prince seems whip smart and he has several interesting notions. Letting the Germans siege one of our cities might finally goad the Pope into excommunicating them.
Much of the ransom obtained for the survivors of his Majesty's triumph will go towards a new Church in Paris, dedicated to the many victories that God has granted the King.
Hugues turns to Thomas.
Have no fear Baron, Frankfurt is not on the trading block. I'm sure once you reach the city, you'll make proper Frenchmen of them.
NO lands should go to Germany. However, the case that perhaps Frankfurt would be a made a deliberate “target” for German aggression, would only be in your agreement of course. The hope that not only the Germans would provide us the opportunity to utterly crush one of their main military formations but that the Pope, already at war with them, might finally be cajoled into excommunicating them.
Make no bones about this, my priority as a Prince of the realm is the safety of France’s citizens everywhere. However, German aggression continues to pose a threat to that even after we have made significant overtures for peace. Should the Kaiser, the NEW Kaiser, be excommunicated I would be to the fore in striking hard and deep into the Rhinelands.
I hear my brother performs well in war as always, I can only hope the same fiery blood flows through my veins. I thank our brave fighting men for making much of my previous statement…redundant…perhaps in the best possible way.
I also take the time to thank the Holy Roman Empire for their generous cash gift that will not only help to construct a new Church in Paris but I am sure aid us in raising more stout Frenchmen to best their finest.
I thank you…
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"So highness, you left the field in posession of the enemy. I find it hard to believe that laggards would catch your forces unaware. Non, I suspect some treachery was likely involved here. In any case, do not let the thought trouble you. I think there is no man here that expects every general to win every battle. The important thing is that you have found your way back safely to the Royaume, and will in time too to your caring family. Three lovely daughters now? They must be a joy to behold!"
Louis responds in an angry but controlled tone without rising from his seat,
"Treachery. I will consider that possibility. Certainly there are many in France, even in this room, who are honorless and would consider such a course.
It is also possible that I was merely careless. Next time I will kill the Germans as I run them down rather than gathering them up to see if their latest master will pay a ransom.
My daughters are the most beautiful things in all the world. Their service to France will be beyond reproach."
Standing now, he turns to face the members of the Council as he speaks,
"I will concur that we should surrender no lands to the Germans at this time. If the Pope declares that we cannot retake them we will have no ward against further German treachery. They are not a people to be trusted.
I also wish to congratulate my father on putting down the most recent claimant to their throne. I had encoutered the fool myself, and I must say that his armies will be the better for his absence.
As to my intentions, I will remain in the region if requested to do so by the Seneschal, otherwise I intend to retire to Toulouse to resupply my army and perhaps retrain some of my depleted regiments. I believe the Germans will gather their forces at Bern for a time before they come again. We have dealt them many stinging defeats in the field and they have no bold commanders remaining."
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Re: Conseil du Royaume
Originally Posted by Ramses II CP
"Treachery. I will consider that possibility. Certainly there are many in France, even in this room, who are honorless and would consider such a course.
Come now, Dauphin. If you are going to insinuate such things, give the perpetrators their names.
Saruman the White
Chief of the White Council, Lord of Isengard, Protector of Dunland
"Though I might find fault with your tone I will be clear that I do not refer to you, Raoul de Chatillon, or you, Thomas de Saint-Amand. There is, however, a man who in public swore he would never bend knee to his future king. You all know the name. He has demanded repeatedly that I defend myself against his baseless claims in the face of all logic.
Know that I am not of his ilk. I suspect he is capable of treachery, but I do not have any reason to call him a traitor, and so I do not claim he is such a beast. There is a difference between the two statements, and I chose my words very carefully on that precise account."
Louis' control over his voice is tight, but anger still provides a bright undertone to all his words.
Asking for a full explanation!? You must be the traitor! J'accuse! How dare you question the existence of the seemingly infinite and shadowy network of traitors around us!
The Duc cannot keep up his sarcastic facade, he starts laughing.
Most likely it is just bad luck, though we assume it to be malicious. When I lose my quill, my first impulse is to ask who stole it, as Reeves always looks a bit sketchy, when in fact I later find it underneath my desk.
Edit: Hugues ponders the Dauphin's words for a moment.
Oh, him, well if he is able to sabotage you mon Prince, you are in a great deal of trouble.
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Re: Conseil du Royaume
Gaetan, who has been silent most of this time, finally shrugs at the Princes words.
"I would ask forgiveness for not coming to your aid when I saw that another German army had come upon your flank that you were not watching, and to blindly kill my men and myself in a flurry as you tried to find out how much those who surrendered to you were worth and had finished raiding the baggage train."
"However, I do not see it being forth coming, so I will not ask of it."
Louis acknowledges de Rethel's comments with a wave of his hand,
"No Frenchman riding to my aid would be killed out of hand, but neither did I send anyone to ask your help. You have done me no wrong in Germany and need not ask forgiveness for this matter.
No, I will keep the possibility of treachery in my mind, especially given how this war began, but I am not one to hide from my mistakes. I sought to profit from ransoming the Germans rather than running them down as they fled. Having captured more than twice my own numbers I lost control of the situation when the last German force came onto the field, and was forced to abandon my own supplies and the field to them. Those men quickly re-armed themselves and would have joined the attackers had we stood to fight, making for an army four times greater than my own.
It is not from pride that I say I could have defeated them again, they are merely Germans after all, but the cost to my own forces would have been very great, and I judged the need was slight. If they dare depart Bern to approach France I will return and meet them once more, only without mercy.
I will also say that if any man here, the King excepted because he is the true lion of France, has never known defeat it is only because he has fought too few battles."
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Re: Conseil du Royaume
Gaetan shook his head.
"Whether you had asked it of me or not, I had decided it would be best if I observe at the very least. However, by the time I had caught wind of the second army, I could do nothing but look on, or at the very least helplessly charge into them."
Gaetan however stand and bows deeply before Prince Louis.
"But, at this moment of consideration, I would like to withdraw my earlier statements about Prince Louis. He has proven me in my eyes he is willing to throw his personal agenda to the side when the Royaume has need of him, and his name need no longer be slandered. As a token of my sincerity and willingness to prove that my words are true, I would ask that the Prince accept an oath of fealty to him or one of his men."
A letter arrives from Hermant Mausvoisin in Frankfurt:
My Lords,
I have heard of the return of Chevalier de Rethel to the Kingdom and rumours of a reconciliation between him and the House of Acquitaine.
In the same spirit of reconciliation, I offer my unreserved apologies to the honourable Chevalier for my unchivalric conduct towards him. If I have impugned his honour, I will give him satisfaction in a duel at a time and place of his choosing. Otherwise, I wish him and the House of Acquitaine every success in their efforts for the greater good of France.
Hearing the name of Frankfurt mentioned by the scribe reading Mauvoisin's letter, Philippe winces.
I don't know about you, Mes Seigneurs, but to hear the name of our ancestors the Franks used in the guttural tongue of the Germans raises my hackles...
If the Sieur de Saint Amand is willing, I think it is time we rename the city in a more suitable and prononceable manner.
As the city is a bastion of the Franks, an outpost in holding at bay the German hordes, may I suggest renaming it Fort des Francs or Fort Franc (OOC : Frank Fort) ? Or can someone provide a more suitable name ?
Last edited by _Tristan_; 09-23-2009 at 10:28.
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"Bon messieurs, I say that the city of Frankfurt be renamed Passéaux, as there are is no water near the city. While not so grand as a Fort, it may perhaps help the populace be reconciled to the return of their city to our rule.
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***
"Oh, how I wish we could have just one Diet session where the Austrians didn't spend the entire time complaining about something." Fredericus von Hamburg
The city will remain Frankfurt. Although our enemy may be inferior, they have their pride as do we. If the Kaiser's men were in Paris and it was renamed Kaiserstadt, how would we feel? We would be insulted. It is enough of a challenge trying to make peace with the empire. I have no desire to make negotiations more difficult by renaming their former capital and antagonizing their people in the process.
"Bon type, perhaps the Germans' pride would be best upheld if the city was ruled by Germans?
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***
"Oh, how I wish we could have just one Diet session where the Austrians didn't spend the entire time complaining about something." Fredericus von Hamburg
I will not force your hand in this Saint-Amand, the city is yours and rightfully so but I meant it as an honour to our soldiers who fell taking the city from the hands of Kaiser Heinrich and those who died preventing Maximilian from reclaiming it.
I also simply thought that it was much better sounding... We must start modeling the world in our view, only thus can the conquered begin to see that we will rule over them.
King Baldwin the Tyrant, King of Jerusalem, Warden of the Holy Sepulchre, Slayer of Sultans in the Crusades Hotseat (new write-up here and previous write-up here) Methodios Tagaris, Caesar and Rebelin LotR Mexica Sunrise: An AztecAAR
Perhaps we must simply wait until there are no more Germans before we rename the city. It is surely only a matter of time with their foolish insistence on warring with us and the Papacy.
Louis' face has cleared and his voice no longer carries the undertone of anger. As he turns to Gaetan de Rethel a look of understanding and compassion comes into his eyes,
Sir de Rethel I am pleased to hear your words. As the Holy Father above teaches, all men may err and require redemption. I have experienced this myself on the battlefield at Bern. I would not reject your oath, but if you will hear my advice Raynaud de Xaintraillies is more in need of your service currently. He oversees our holdings in Iberia by himself, and with the Spanish faltering and fractured the threat of the heathens could explode at any time.
Let me be utterly clear Gaetan; no conflict exists between us from this day forth. We are brothers in arms serving a nation at war. I noted with admiration your boldness at the pass west of Bern even before you spoke today.
I invite you to join me at Toulouse. I mean to send reinforcements into Iberia during this term, perhaps you could escort them to Sir de Xaintrailles?
My King and the Nobles of the Realm, I have word from Herve de Savoie, the diplomat now handling negotiations with the English.
There is good news and bad news. The bad news is that without an alliance, the English will not swap Angers and Caen for Valencia, Wales and a massive amount of florins.
The good news is that they might still be willing to deal. Herve assures me that he could obtain Caen for Valencia, Wales and around two thousand Florins. Granted this is steep, but it is a better deal than Severin de Brie could have made.
We wouldn't get all that we wanted, but we would gain a connection to Bretagne, be rid of that task from the Pope with no penalty and gain a formidable castle.
Before negotiations proceed any further, what are the thoughts of the King and the Conseil? Should we pursue this deal?
But as I feared my cousin Guillaume has raised the price... If only that deal had been sealed in due time, we would not be giving two of our provinces for one of Guillaume.
But at least it will cast a land bridge to Bretagne, my goal from the beginning and the reason why I was pushing for obtaining both Caen and Angers.
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"Bah! The English are at war with the Scots again, now is the time for us to prepare our own strike! All have respected the King's truce so that France could regain her feet, but we've found our footing now and in just a few short seasons we could have Pamplona, Bordeaux, Anger, and Caen all!
I am sorry mon Roi, but this talk of paying William for lands that are rightfully ours is distasteful to me. We should seek peace with the Germans, they are a beaten people and their remaining lands are far from France, and with that secured we should turn on the English and repay them for their years of occupying our lands!
The English are ripe for the plucking. Give us our head at long last my father, let your nobles have the war they have sought and prayed for and we will return France to her rightful state in your name!
I want to beggar the English peasants, drive their widows weeping into the streets, and set dogs on their fleeing soldiers! I want William's sons to come pleading with us for a truce from across the channel! Let us put aside diplomacy and have back what is OURS! Surely God brought war to the English because he favors our just cause?
What say you men of the Council? Do you want to buy back our castles and enrich our enemy or take them back as they were taken from us?"
The Prince's eyes are alight with joy as he speaks, and he ends with his fist raised in the air as his voices carries through the chamber.
While I don't like giving money and land to the English I think the Pope has made it clear what God thinks of the bloodshed between Christian nations. We have already been on the verge of excommunication once and are now slowly rebuilding our relations with the Holy Sea. Another war against the English would again cast us in a bad light.
The lions sing and the hills take flight.
The moon by day, and the sun by night.
Blind woman, deaf man, jackdaw fool.
Let the Lord of Chaos rule.
—chant from a children's game heard in Great Aravalon, the Fourth Age
We would have to seize what we could in one season Dauphin, for the English are well liked by the Pope, more than us at least. We would again be threatened with Excommunication if we continued our attack past that first season.
It will take time to sway the Pope to our side. It will also take time to make peace with the Germans, so far they have been intractable and we cannot press them further until they are excommunicated.
I would love to drive the English dogs into the sea, but. . .there are obstacles.
Edit: Sometimes I wish were Orthodox like the Greeks, so we wouldn't. . .never mind.
Prince Henri, who has been sitting near the back of the council, stands, arm raised for quiet
Council members,
I too feel the same as my brother here. I find myself, disagreeably, in opposition to my Roi here.
No lands or money to the English bstards. It is our people who have fought and died for such coin and holdings, let the English be pushed from the continent. I will be willing to join my brother in this worthy task indeed.
Send them to the ocean. Then and only then will I accept treaties with these people, when they are in their own lands and not ours!
I do not however believe the Germans finally beaten. They will return but I feel we are now in a position to deal with this and still have enough brave men to oust the English finally from our lands.
If someone as cautious as I, has such confidence, what is preventing us from acting upon it?
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Re: Conseil du Royaume
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Originally Posted by KnightnDay
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