The Wehrmacht, History, Myth, Reality

**KrooK** · 09-29-2009, 13:34

For this "masterpiece" suggesting that Poland was worse for Jews than Germany I can reply only:

21.03.1933 - Himmler ordered to build KL Dachau.

Right - deathcamps must have been perfect place for Jews. Much better than Poland. Nothing strange that so many French jews were catched and sent to KL Auschwitz by french police. Yep - now I understand.

[Early 1939: Poland: Deportations of Jews from the frontier towns]

In early 1939 Jews were forced to leave certain frontier towns because they were considered to be unreliable elements - as though Jews were less interested in resistance to the Germans than were the Poles. In this connection "almost one-quarter of the Jewish population of Gdynia was deported". At Katowice it was "feared that half the local Jewish population may be forced to emigrate elsewhere."

Many Jews were unreliable elements. They helped USSR.

(End note 13: See note 11 [R61, February 1939])

[1939: Anti-Semitism also in Western and Northwestern Poland]
Riots, pogroms, and boycotts now spread to areas in western and northwestern Poland, where the number of Jews was very small; up till then these areas had been spared from excesses.

Hmm - interesting that into Western and North-Western Poland lived most of German minority.
With political views very similar to the ones at Germany.

Internet source is bad source. Unreriable. And even if - its from 1974. Poland had very bad PR that time. And Jewish sources before 80ties were very far from "honest".

**Conradus** · 09-29-2009, 14:34

Originally Posted by KrooK

Many Jews were unreliable elements. They helped USSR.

Considering they were deported by their anti-semitic government, they might have had some reason to do that, no?

Do mind though, the whole of Europe was anti-semitic pre-WWII. Germany "just" pushed it further than all the others.

**KrooK** · 09-29-2009, 15:41

Conradus
they were deported because were unreliable (of course if they were deported - basement is quotation from unreliable source) not they were unreliable because were deported.
Into 1938 USSR dispanded Communist Party of Poland (group of terrorist claiming themselves polish revolutionists). Practically all of members were Jews or Belarussians. Generally unreliable element.

Most of jewish community remain loyal to country. But big, visible part betrayed Poland which is out of discussion too.

**Brenus** · 09-29-2009, 18:52

“Nothing strange that so many French jews were catched and sent to KL Auschwitz by french police. Yep - now I understand.”
No you don’t. I don’t deny it. I don’t deny that a big part of the French Aristocracy and bourgeoisie (Maurras) was anti-Semitic. The laws taken by Pétain were worst than the Germans. He even took these laws without any request from the Germans.

As I said, France betrayed the Jews. France, her government at the time, betrayed the Jewish officers, NCO and soldiers who fought against the Germans in WW1. Pétain betrayed the Jewish who believed in France as the country which was the first one to gave them freedom and equality.
This is the honour of France:
Message from General de Gaulle to Rabbi Dr. Stephen Wise, President of the World Jewish Congress, New York (4th of October 1941):
On the occasion of the 150th anniversary of the emancipation of the Jews of France, I hereby confirm to you the policy of liberated France towards all Frenchmen.
The famous decree concerning the emancipation of the Jews of France, as well as the Proclamation of the Rights of Man and Citizens, is still in effect and cannot be repealed by the men of Vichy.
In fact, we consider the changes made to the Constitution and to French Law by the so-called Vichy Government, whose origins and actions are unconstitutional and illegal, to be null and void.
LIBERATED FRANCE, which, respects the Constitution and the Laws of the Republic wherever it exerts power, is determined to restore, once victory is achieved, the equality - in dignity and in deed - of all of the citizens on French soil.

“21.03.1933 - Himmler ordered to build KL Dachau”: For political opponents, mainly Communists and Socialists. Who were Jews according to you? And in 1934, Poland signed a Friendship Treaty with Germany…

“They helped USSR” Wonder why if the Polish treated them like this? Any way, they were not Polish according to the 1934 Poland…
You know of course it is pure….

By the way, Carrefour is a French Supermarcket. I was shopping there when Poland was still communist.

"Never heard about it": English shops.

**KrooK** · 09-29-2009, 21:59

By the way, Carrefour is a French Supermarcket. I was shopping there when Poland was still communist.

To start from end (sorry but better is explaining small misunderstandings first) Carrefour is great worldwide corporation. It has its companies all over the world. In Poland it is Carrefour Polska sp. z o.o., which of course is part of Carrefour corporation.

Jews started being sent to Dachau very fast. Remember that this KL was boot camp for crews of other death camps - they need Jews (I think is sound terrible but its truth) to practise.

Any way, they were not Polish according to the 1934 Poland…

Sorry but really don't understand what you mean. Really. Could you explain what you mean?

Locarno was much more helpful for Germany than non-agression pact from 1934.
I won't even tell about Munich 1938.

And you should not use English shops as examples - Anglo-American law system is completely different than European. Good comparison would be with France, Germany or Italy.

And yes - Jews helped USSR. First time into polish-russian war 1919-1921. Then during agression 1939 and occupation 1939-1941. And later into years 1944-1956. Not all of them, rather minority - but visible minority. You can't blame all Frenchmen for sending Jews to deathcamps. Minority did it - but visible minority. Same was with Jews - visible minority betrayed their motherland.

Ahh I would forgot. Before ww2 Jews in Poland had special prerogative that made their situation much better than any other minorities. Better than Poles. They could organise associations and foundation without permission of Minister of Inner Affairs. These law persons could do any activity not prohibited by law. And thats why most of fathers of Israel became trained in Poland.

**Brenus** · 10-01-2009, 06:35

“Could you explain what you mean?” It is what you are saying: The Poles and the Jews. You make a difference between them as in the Poles and the Russians, the Poles and the Germans. So, if the Jews are not Poles, why should they be loyal to a country that didn’t considered them as citizens?
Locarno (1925) was indeed helpful to Germany but was signed with the Weimar Republic, not with Adolph Hitler. Locarno Treaty was to welcome back Germany as a friendly nation by her former enemies… It didn’t help Hitler’s Germany to rearm…

**KrooK** · 10-01-2009, 14:36

Locarno Treaty was to welcome back Germany as a friendly nation by her former enemies

Yes- shortly speaking France told Germany something like that:
Ok guys we understand that you want change borders on east. Do what you want but don't think about changing western border.

Ahh and one more- maybe we could got back to Wermacht instead of course of polish legal system.