What is this "pizza" you speak of?

[Hooahguy]

i just realized. i have the EXACT same tshirt as the guy the background.
"i do all my own stunts."

[pevergreen]

Best pizza I've ever had...

Chicken Hawaiian : tomato, cheese, chicken, herb and pineapple large for $16.90

4 Slices of pizza. Two slices was a huge meal. I couldnt eat anymore, and I hadnt eaten anything all day (was about 1pm)
Dinner was the third slice, breakfast the next day didnt happen, lunch and dinenr combined was the last one. I struggled.

[Ibrahim]

i just realized. i have the EXACT same tshirt as the guy the background.
"i do all my own stunts."

not nearly as bad*** as my Geology club t-shirt, whose words I will not mention here.

[Papewaio]

I don't think the Deep Pan 'Chicago Pizza' is a pizza ... it is a marketing term rather than Hot Quiche or Flan which it is identical too.

Having said that, I would love to eat that monstrosity.

And I have ate chocolate 'pizzas', it had marshmellows and some sort of cornflakes... nothing special.

Woodfire pizzas are pretty common at the non-chain pizza stores in Aus. Can get huge range of types from the more authentic Italian to Aussie varieties. Also get the Pides which are very similar in overall style.

[Whacker]

HERESY.

[Husar]

Chicago Flan it is.

It doesn't look bad but more like a cake than a pizza.

[TinCow]

Both Chicago and NY style pizzas are losers when compared to a true Italian pizza with fresh ingrediants.

[Fragony]

NY style is (kinda) Italian style, in central Italy they also serve a thicker crust.

[KukriKhan]

Both Chicago and NY style pizzas are losers when compared to a true Italian pizza with fresh ingrediants.

With all due respect: there ain't no such thing. Tomato wasn't introduced into Europe until the 1500's, so a smear of tomato paste/sauce is out as "authentic original"; so we're talking flat bread with some kinda cheese melted on top as a "true Italian pizza", and cheese, by definition is never 'fresh'.

Therefore, I submit that any bread-type product with any topping of any kind (though preferably melt-able), heated uncovered, is worthy of the designation "pizza".

[TinCow]

With all due respect: there ain't no such thing. Tomato wasn't introduced into Europe until the 1500's, so a smear of tomato paste/sauce is out as "authentic original"; so we're talking flat bread with some kinda cheese melted on top as a "true Italian pizza", and cheese, by definition is never 'fresh'.

Therefore, I submit that any bread-type product with any topping of any kind (though preferably melt-able), heated uncovered, is worthy of the designation "pizza".

By true Italian pizza, I mean pizza in the style in which it is made in Italy:
ultra-thin crust, requiring eating with a knife and fork
only a wafer-thin spattering of sauce (if any)
a non-uniform covering of toppings, with fresh greens such as whole basil leaves, spinach, etc.
if cheese is included (not required), it is always FRESH mozzarella (I weep for you if you don't understand the concept of fresh, handmade cheese... fresh mozzarella is eaten the SAME DAY it is made)
the only meat toppings are various cuts of salami and ham, no sausage or processed American 'pepperoni'

[Louis VI the Fat]

The Americans make nice pizza-like dishes, and imma let them finish, but the Italians have made one of the best foods of all time. Only theirs is 'pizza'.


Did you know that the French make pizza too? Millenia old, the pissaladière from the French Southeast. Odd as it may sound, one can use anything in a pissaladière, except those most basic of pizza ingredients: tomato sauce and cheese.

[KukriKhan]

Oui. Patially-leavened peasant bread with whatever leftovers remain from yesterday on top, subjected to high heat = pizza.

Isn't processed American 'pepperoni' merely a spicey-hot salami? And I don't care how recently it was manipulated into its cook-able form, cheese hasta curdle to be cheese, so it can never be 'fresh'.

[Fragony]

Did you know that the French make pizza too? Millenia old, the pissaladière from the French Southeast. Odd as it may sound, one can use anything in a pissaladière, except those most basic of pizza ingredients: tomato sauce and cheese.

Common in the whole of the mediteranian, it's no different for the Italians. It was about leftovers really they threw on whatever they could find.

edit: as Kukri already explained.

pepperoni is American salami simple as that, also comes in multiple variety's.

And fresh mozarello, NO, the better Italian uses buffallo mozzeralla with pecoroni

[TinCow]

Isn't processed American 'pepperoni' merely a spicey-hot salami?

Calling American 'pepperoni' salami is like calling the meat Taco Bell puts into their tacos beef. Technically, it's correct, but the differences in quality, preparation, and taste are so severe that they really are not the same thing. I actually find it very, very difficult to get a good salami in the US. The only common US brand I've seen that reliably makes high-quality salami is Columbus. Most US grocery stores carry half a dozen kinds of salami, if you're lucky. In Italy and Germany, there are literally hundreds of different kinds of salami. Americans know as much about how to make good salami as Japanese know about BBQ.

And I don't care how recently it was manipulated into its cook-able form, cheese hasta curdle to be cheese, so it can never be 'fresh'.

Fine, call it whatever you want to call it. The point is that month-old machine processed mozzarella is not remotely similar in flavor to mozzarella that is hand-made the same day you eat it.

[Strike For The South]

Fine, call it whatever you want to call it. The point is that month-old machine processed mozzarella is not remotely similar in flavor to mozzarella that is hand-made the same day you eat it.

This is the truth. Fresh made mozzarella is the closest to heavan I'll ever get.

[Fragony]

Calling American 'pepperoni' salami is like calling the meat Taco Bell puts into their tacos beef. Technically, it's correct, but the differences in quality, preparation, and taste are so severe that they really are not the same thing. I actually find it very, very difficult to get a good salami in the US. The only common US brand I've seen that reliably makes high-quality salami is Columbus. Most US grocery stores carry half a dozen kinds of salami, if you're lucky. In Italy and Germany, there are literally hundreds of different kinds of salami. Americans know as much about how to make good salami as Japanese know about BBQ.

Sorry about your salami but pepperoni comes in just as many variety's, also the garlic heavy Italian ones. You won't find the exact same thing you loved so much when you were on holiday in Italy, ok. But pepperoni=salami. Period.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Pepperoni does not mean the same everywhere. In America, it is means sausage. In Italy, it means pepper.
Italians in the new world will serve you something very different than Italians in Italy.

~~-~~-~~<<oOo>>~~-~~-~~

American 'pizza's' are fine. They took a concept and changed it beyond recognition. Me, I like NY pizza, but I could never eat Chicago pizza. But to each his own.

At any rate, as with so many cultural differences, it is not so much a matter of 'better'. As was said in the 'free-est country' thread that spawned all of this, the question is 'better by which standard'?

When judged by quality of ingredients, tradition, authenticity, refinement, there is no choice. The Italian pizza's are not just superior, they are simply the one and only.

This is not how one ought to judge American pizza. As with just about any cultural expression, one must judge American products by their creativity, youthful exuberance, sheer over-the-topness. Americans don't appreciate a pizza whose topping consists of a few leaves of divinely perfect basil. Americans want to invent the mother of all pizza's.

It's like US cars. They range from awful monster pick-up trucks, to those huge, slender 1950's dream machines with perfect curves and wings. Both stem from the same urge to overdo it, both are over the top. Ridiculously so even. From one point of view. From another, the latter are perfect, the greatest cars ever build. When they do get it right, the yanks can get it oh so right.

[Andres]

Hmmm, mozarella with fresh tomatoe, a couple of fresh basilicum leaves and some olive oil. So simple, yet so delicious.

[caravel]

With all due respect: there ain't no such thing. Tomato wasn't introduced into Europe until the 1500's, so a smear of tomato paste/sauce is out as "authentic original"; so we're talking flat bread with some kinda cheese melted on top as a "true Italian pizza", and cheese, by definition is never 'fresh'.

Therefore, I submit that any bread-type product with any topping of any kind (though preferably melt-able), heated uncovered, is worthy of the designation "pizza".

A particular ingredient's origin does not necessarily have any bearing on "authenticity". Pretty much every major dish you can think of is based on what you might call "non native ingredients".

Many foodstuffs such as Chilli (capsicums), Potatoes, Tomatoes, Cacao, Maize, etc entered Europe, Africa and Asia from the Americas and became the important parts of dishes that could be termed "Authentic Indian", "Authentic Italian" or "Authentic Belgian" for example. This is because those dishes were invented and refined in those places.

At the same time many ingredients such as Beef, Lamb, Chicken, Plantains, Wheat, Rice, Coffee and various herbs/spices entered the Americas from Europe/Asia/Africa and became the basis for "Authentic American" ('American' as in North/South/Central) dishes.

"Authentic pizza" though, is most definitely Italian pizza. Whether it's the best or not is down to individual tastes.

[The Stranger]

Pizza isn't really the kind of thing you have a “best” variant of. It's somewhat like asking about the “best” colour. We can agree that in general violent pink isn't 100% suitable for every occasion; just like how we can agree you probably shouldn't add chocolate to pizzas. But the best mix/combination?

in bali they have banana and chocolate pizza...

[The Stranger]

Common in the whole of the mediteranian, it's no different for the Italians. It was about leftovers really they threw on whatever they could find.

edit: as Kukri already explained.

pepperoni is American salami simple as that, also comes in multiple variety's.

And fresh mozarello, NO, the better Italian uses buffallo mozzeralla with pecoroni

whatever you do to mozarella, just dont grill it...

[AlexanderSextus]

By true Italian pizza, I mean pizza in the style in which it is made in Italy:
ultra-thin crust, requiring eating with a knife and fork

When i had pizza in italy, I could still eat it by folding it Yank style. And this was no americanized pizza place either. It was a Pizzeria in Piazza Navona in Rome.

There is something to be said for the gorgeously basic, wonderfully crafted pizza in Italy.

I also went to a Pizzeria in Firenze that served pizzas made in the American format, with the Italian style and ingredients, Best pizza I have ever had, but the Italian Pizza is not too far from the Pizza here in NJ.

[Reverend Joe]

~~-~~-~~<<oOo>>~~-~~-~~

American 'pizza's' are fine. They took a concept and changed it beyond recognition. Me, I like NY pizza, but I could never eat Chicago pizza. But to each his own.

At any rate, as with so many cultural differences, it is not so much a matter of 'better'. As was said in the 'free-est country' thread that spawned all of this, the question is 'better by which standard'?

When judged by quality of ingredients, tradition, authenticity, refinement, there is no choice. The Italian pizza's are not just superior, they are simply the one and only.

This is not how one ought to judge American pizza. As with just about any cultural expression, one must judge American products by their creativity, youthful exuberance, sheer over-the-topness. Americans don't appreciate a pizza whose topping consists of a few leaves of divinely perfect basil. Americans want to invent the mother of all pizza's.

That's a serious misconception about American food. Commercialized food is really over-the-top, no matter the country of origin. American's problem is that its commercialized food gets pushed on everyone else around the world, and everyone else assumes that's what Americans eat. In fact, most Americans appreciate simple, fine food just as much as anyone else.

In fact, although many people might like to boast about their mother-of-all-pizzas, the most popular pizza in the United States, by far, is the plain cheese pizza, and the best American pizza is a cheese pizza with the best possible quality of ingredients. That's what it's like with most American foods: we don't want a Mambo Superburger, we just want a regular cheeseburger with lettuce, tomato and mayo and a coke on the side. Maybe pickles, raw onions and ketchup as well. The traditional American recipes are even more steeped in what you perceive as a uniquely European taste; if you serve the wrong kind of barbecue at the wrong place, you will get your ass handed to you. People are fiercely loyal to their local recipes and disparage and look down upon all other versions as "inferior" and "inauthentic."

McDonalds =/= America, as much as they may want it to be.

Edit: I'm actually surprised you don't like Chicago pizza. I mean, yeah, they can be absurd, just like any over-the-top food, but the usual Chicago pizza is more like a European meat pie than anything. It ought to be fairly close to home for you.

[miotas]

I prefer to buy a base and put my own ingredients on it. Very rarely I make my own bases, but usually I can't be bothered. I also prefer tinner bases, not as filling perhaps, but I think the taste is much better on a thin base.

[Vuk]

A human being can eat maybe one slice. Two if they are competition-grade eaters.

lol, what about 4? Does that make me super competition grade eater? :P

[Lemur]

lol, what about 4? Does that make me super competition grade eater? :P

Dude, that makes you large and in charge.

[Reverend Joe]

Good pun.

[Vuk]

Dude, that makes you large and in charge.

Nah, just fat and greedy. My appetite has always been my down fall. :P

[Prussian to the Iron]

pizza, in my definition, is anything that meets all the following qualifications:

1. has some form of crust
2. has tomato sauce underneath some form of cheese
3. is NY-style mofos!

[ajaxfetish]

I now invoke the blessings of all the dark gods as I command this thread ... to live!!!

Ahem.

So, I'll be picking up my little sister from the airport in Chicago later this month, and I want to take the chance to experience a real Chicago pizza. So the question is, where do I go? Who'all make the best deep-dish pizzas in the Windy City? (and are any of them compatible with a grad student budget?) I've noted down Carmen's, as recommended by Lemur in the OP. Is this the place to go, or should I be heading somewhere else?

Ajax