The Future of Religion

[Rhyfelwyr]

I saw a similar thread on another forum, and it got me thinking... what sort of position will religion occupy in the world come 50 or 100 years time? On the Evangelical forums I browse, it's always a picture of doom and gloom, and while I think this is true to an extent, I don't agree with it completely.

As things stand, religion has a very contrasting fate depending where in the world you look. And this is not just for the number of followers it has, but the very character of the belief system. Of course, this is just speaking very broadly, and so I'll try to categorise the rest of this post by different world regions.

First of all, there is the USA with its Evangelical Christianity. And I'm with the Evangelicals on this one, I expect there will be a big collapse in Christianity over there. Fundamentalist Christianity is just too much at odds with the values of a developed, secular modern nation; and it's association with conservatism will prove the final nail in the coffin. Christianity in the USA has come to be seen as the polar opposite of a liberal, progressive order. Of course, this isn't entirely true, but it's still far from being wrong. This sort of conflict has created quite a number of Dawkinesque people in the current generation. As for those who claim to be Evangelical Christians, there is still a chasm between their beliefs and those held by the older generations. IIRC around half of young Christians in America now believe you can get to heaven by being a good person. You will hear a lot of them say they are down with Jesus and that they express their faith through a Christian rock band or whatever, but you won't see them getting up for church on a Sunday morning. I think it is safe to say they will not pass their beliefs onto their children. So with this Evangelical collapse, what will replace it? Well, I reckon there will be a small rise in fundamentalist churches, and small committed cults like the JW's will attract some of those disillusioned with mainstream religion. New Age and Wicca etc will probably attract those who are into the spiritual/mystical stuff. But on the whole, most people won't even have a gap to fill. What we see now in the USA is a Christian culture, not really any sort of serious religious belief system. They will just go with the flow as the culture evolves without Christianity.
Oh, and there will be a lot of megachurches in it for the bucks.

Then, there is Europe, where churches are seen as having a more traditional than active role in society. This more institutionalised form of Christianity is really struggling atm. A lot of national churches will go into a rapid decline and their congregations are likely to get smaller in the future. What is happening though, is that as churches are starting to die off, they are beginning to work together. On big feature of Christianity in Europe will be the rise of the [cursed IMO] ecumenical movement. This is happening in places where it would have once seemed unimaginable, starting with Scotland maybe 50 years ago, and nowadays even reaching Northern Ireland. Gone are the days when the Pope was the Antichrist (I might actually make another thread on that some time), or the Protestant movement was Gog and Magog sweeping down from the north. Already, the Catholic Church is at the head of this ecumenical movement. Of course, I am not purely blaming the Catholic Church, when the problems began in my own house. The switch to a more tradition, ritual-based Christianity in Europe can be seen happening ever since the 18th century. For example, the Church of Scotland, traditionally having a more puritan outlook, has reintroduced holy days, stained-glass windows, idols etc, all without much opposition. Now they wan't to walk around town waving palm leaves [facepalm]. But this is the sort of Christianity we will see in Europe over the next few decades. People feel more comfortable with they have physical manifestations of what they believe in. They like to see Jesus on a painting, a cross round their neck etc. And this is what will become dominant on this continent - a large, hierarchical church system based on rituals and traditional practices. Doesn't matter whether you are Catholic, Lutheran, Orthodox, Anglican or apparently even Presbyterian, this is overruning the entire continent. The only enclaves against it will probably be in Scotland and Northern Ireland, a small minority of us that will be seen as bigots etc. Of course, besides all this, Europe will be largely atheist, with a bit of New Age and spiritualism for those so inclined.

It's been negative so far, but I think the prospects for (what is IMO genuine) Christianity are good in the developing world. In Africa, Pentecostal and Charismatic churches are seeing an explosion in numbers. According to wikipedia, there were only 9 million African Christians in 1900, now there are over 300m, and by 2025 this figure will have doubled. Similarly, China's Christian population is rapidly growing, and now IIRC it has the seocond largest Christian population in the world.

In general, this shift in it's power centre from the developed to the developing world will surely have a massive impact on the political associations that Christianity brings with it. Maybe militant atheism will decline once the Christian right etc vanishes, and the religion takes on a more positive light as it is brought to the poor, just like it was in the Bible. Maybe there will be less talk about Christian hypocrisy, rightfully so I suppose.

As for the other religions...

Islam's development will depend largely on the middle-eastern conflicts/peace process, and I'm not even going to attempt to guess how that will work out. For Muslims in the western world though, I think they will integrate fine. Yes there will be fundamentalism and jihadism so long as they remain in poverty, but once their economic situation beings to improve the radicalism will decline.

For Hinduism, it was always about maintaining the caste system and societal order, so it will remain fairly constant in the coming times, rooted to India and wherever its working population went, be it Guyana, Mauritius, Fiji etc. The monotheistic movements within Hiduism will continue to grow in order to make it a more serious belief system, while for the less religious, they will go along with the traditions because that's what traditions are for.

Any thoughts from my fellow Backroomers on this?

[Kadagar_AV]

Oh, I hope that in, as you say, 50 or 100 years, people will have finaly understod that they might view the world in a slighly more realistic view than the religious one.

Of course, there will still be some believers.

But one might think, that by then, he should have got the message that people hadn't got his message...

So either I am looking forward to an eternity in hell, or a life where I live my life as full as it can be:)

[Hax]

I'm with the Dalai Lama on this one: "If Buddhism and science are ever at odds; choose science."

Things will inevitably work out and make a new sort of religion.

[Beskar]

There will be the Religion of Science!!!

But seriously - Secular Humanism. That is all there is to it.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Oddly enough. I'm reasonably optimistic. Christian congregations are increasingly seeing an influx of young members, who are also falling away from the Free Evangelical movement, and the established Churches are finally getting to grips with scooping up the poor waifs as they fall off.

At the end of the day, Christianity has never been a majoriety religion, even when it seemed to be. After the decline that begin around 1850 and seemed to peak around 1985, things are at least stabalised, if not on the up.

Unlike Rhy, I welcome the moderating influence of the Ecumunical movement, and the acceptence that ritual can be a legitimate aid to worship.

[Tribesman]

Fundamentalist Christianity is just too much at odds with the values of a developed, secular modern nation

Fundamentalist Christianity is just too much at odds with Christianity

[Lord Winter]

Oh, I hope that in, as you say, 50 or 100 years, people will have finaly understod that they might view the world in a slighly more realistic view than the religious one.

Of course, there will still be some believers.

But one might think, that by then, he should have got the message that people hadn't got his message...

So either I am looking forward to an eternity in hell, or a life where I live my life as full as it can be:)

Since we know all atheists are completely open minded.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Fundamentalist Christianity is just too much at odds with Christianity

So true. The saddest thing is that the original objection to Darwinism was was it would encourage social ruthlessness, something the Republican Right now seems to advocate with zeal.

[Louis VI the Fat]

In the year 2100:

Religious fundamentalism will rule the US. 'What would baby Jesus have done?' will be the US' guiding principle.
In Europe, the last atheist will die childless, as Muslims rule, with pockets of Christians left in Poland and Sicily, while a Phillipine pope looks on in bewilderment.
The Islamic world will be torn between liberal and fundamentatalist Islam.
Israel is packed with 174 million ultra-orthodox Jews, who are bumming of the five hundred thousand liberal Jews they keep behind a wall in Tel Aviv.

And atheist China will rule the world.

[Strike For The South]

In the year 2100:

Religious fundamentalism will rule the US. 'What would baby Jesus have done?' will be the US' guiding principle.
In Europe, the last atheist will die childless, as Muslims rule, with pockets of Christians left in Poland and Sicily, while a Phillipine pope looks on in bewilderment.
The Islamic world will be torn between liberal and fundamentatalist Islam.
Israel is packed with 174 million ultra-orthodox Jews, who are bumming of the five hundred thousand liberal Jews they keep behind a wall in Tel Aviv.

And atheist China will rule the world.

Baby Jesus is my favorite Jesus

[Tribesman]

'What would baby Jesus have done?' will be the US' guiding principle.

So America is going to defecate , burp, cry, drink some milk , burp, defecate, cry and go to sleep.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Fundamentalist Christianity is just too much at odds with Christianity

Sort of(ish). At the end of the day, believing the earth is 6,000 years or not (not even really an issue of fundamentalism) doesn't make the difference between you being a Christian or not.

But yeah, that's going into the bigger issue of "What is Christianity", usually through trying to figure out what exactly the beliefs of the 'Jesus sect' were. Which is quite a minefield, and probably off-topic.

[Azathoth]

Israel is packed with 174 million ultra-orthodox Jews, who are bumming of the five hundred thousand liberal Jews they keep behind a wall in Tel Aviv.

That's a lot of Jews.

[Megas Methuselah]

That's a lot of Jews.

You'll be astounded at the number of Native Americans that will be packed into Saskatchewan by 2100 if we continue multiplying at this rate.

[Olaf The Great]

You'll be astounded at the number of Native Americans that will be packed into Saskatchewan by 2100 if we continue multiplying at this rate.

The rednecks will still outnumber you until some sort of White-People killing disease comes around.

[Megas Methuselah]

The rednecks will still outnumber you until some sort of White-People killing disease comes around.

Hehe. "Bigpox." But no, seriously, I've heard some crazy statistics about 3/5 babies born will be of Aboriginal descent.

Wooh!

[Viking]

Any thoughts from my fellow Backroomers on this?

I think the jury is still out on the future.

[Samurai Waki]

I don't think 50-100 years is enough time to say there will be a radical alteration of the current trends happening within the Religious World. Christianity will be more prevalent in 3rd World Countries, the rift between non-religious, somewhat religious, too religious will continue to grow in the US and there will still be a decline in Western Europe. India will still be mostly Hindu, Buddhists will continue to keep getting pushed to the side, and Islam will liberalise in some places, and stay just as hardcore as it is now, in other places.

[The Stranger]

There will be the Religion of Science!!!

But seriously - Secular Humanism. That is all there is to it.

that religion already excists... as does the religion of economics...

phenomenological existentialism, that is ALL there is to it.

[Hooahguy]

Israel is packed with 174 million ultra-orthodox Jews, who are bumming of the five hundred thousand liberal Jews they keep behind a wall in Tel Aviv.

hard for that to happen when theres only around 14 million jews or something like that.


now, on topic:
religion will always be around. always.

[Lord Winter]

I think religon will make a come back in the next century. Religon has already indured science. It has survived two massive wars and a holocaust. The only place it has to go is up as more people will find there own way to live with it.

[LittleGrizzly]

I think in Europe its only going to recede mostly, in the poorest places in the world is always fertile terroritory for religions. I can't say I know with the USA, they seem to be strongly religious...

[Meneldil]

Hehe. "Bigpox." But no, seriously, I've heard some crazy statistics about 3/5 babies born will be of Aboriginal descent.

Wooh!

Is it really a good news? Seeing how the native population is treated in Canada, I don't think any demographic boom would help solving the huge alcohol, unemployement and poverty issues.

As for the main topic, I deeply fear religion will go stronger with time. The next century is going to be a very important moment. Will religion survive and destroy reason, humanism and free-thinking? Or will it sink forever, at least in Europe?

[The Stranger]

humanism is just another form of religion, its the religion of mankind... actually most religions are religions of mankind in the sense that they center humans as a very special and elevated being, when in fact it is not special at all. the human as we see it around now is nothing but a very tiny thread between ape and ubermensch as nietzsche puts it, or between ape and extinction. we will continue to evolve, for better or worse. to believe that we are an endstation is arrogant and naive.

there is one "religion" that should be allowed to exist and its phenomenology because it allows everything else to exist without prejudice, judice or postjudice.

[CountArach]

My view (Without reading anything else here) is essentially that people will continue the present (and statistically proven) trend towards Secularism and Agnosticism/Atheism. I think that many of those who do this would be religious moderates and as such, by moving away from religion, they leave religious congregations that are mostly evangelical and extreme. This in turn would serve to discredit the religions further because the actions of what are presently a minority will become an increasingly larger proportion of the actions of the entire congregation. Thus, people are more likely to turn away from them, creating a perpetuating cycle whereby the congregations start to appear more and more extreme as more moderates turn away from them. I wouldn't be surprised to see an undefined sort of Deism become quite popular. Of course, I can't prove any of this and these may be the deluded ramblings of an insane lefty, but I do think it is undeniable that we will see a greater move towards Atheism.

Interesting times are ahead if anything close to this occurs.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Religion and "belief" will always be around. There is a reason for this.

In the beginning, mankind believed that the sun and the moon were gods, and they believed that doing certain things would make it rain, and that their leaders were gods. The reason they believed these things is because they lacked a scientific knowledge of the world, and in the absence of knowledge, a hierarchical universal structure that was modeled on the tribal kingdoms and dictatorships made the most sense. From the point of view of the common, illiterate person, the supreme beings in the universe were the sun that ruled the sky, the moon that ruled the night, the weather, and their kings. Any who questioned this were seen as idiots, because it was painfully obvious those things were in charge of the world.

Later on, people began to reject the idea of the sun and the moon being gods, as advances in knowledge led us to understand these things as inanimate celestial bodies, no more unique than the other countless specks of dust in the sky. People still worshiped their kings or religious leaders, and there was much ado about messiahs.

Dark ages and holy wars led some to reconsider the secular and reasonable schools of thought. The church was partly responsible for lifting minds out of this darkness, but it was also partly responsible for keeping some minds in darkness. Popes were shown to be fallible and corrupt, and Islamic caliphates rose and fell. A renewed interest in secular science led to a golden age. With more and more knowledge, less and less of the old beliefs were held. Many traditions were abolished, and many reforms happened.

In the modern era, science is dominating the human mind. Most educated people understand the universe in such a way that spells and superstitions do not dominate the field of medicine, theories about the stars being alive and influencing our lives as gods are waning, and we no longer believe our leaders, both political and religious, are infallible. The more we understand, the less we rely on faith.

However, there is a limit to what we can observe of the universe from here on our tiny dust speck, looking into the cosmos, limited by the speed of light and the steady march of time. We can only see the universe as it was. We see millions and billions of years into the past, and we are forever entrapped in a fog of ignorance, limited always by the infinite and eternal, and vastly overwhelming concept of the unknown. What we know and understand will always be dwarfed exponentially by what we do not know and understand.

1. We may never know what caused the universe to be, or what happened "before" that, if such a thing is even possible. We may never understand why there can be no such thing as "before" the beginning of time, because it's impossible to comprehend fully the implications of nothingness and total void.

2. We may never be able to see the edges of the universe, because as light travels, time passes. We have no idea what the universe presently looks like, and we won't know what it looks like now for billions of years, and by then it will be too late for us to care.

3. We may never fully understand the smallest of the small, the quantum universe. It's so bizarre that quantum physicists have difficulty explaining to me, a reasonably adequate mind, why it isn't a bunch of baloney built on assumptions which are based on very complicated math. To me, some of their theories smell of nothing more than wholly fabricated nonsense. Sure, 1 plus 1 equals 2, but does that necessarily mean there are unlimited parallel universes connected by membranes? You can't prove that using math. Prove it with a dimensional gateway or something. Until then, you also have to deal with the problem of people being unsure if there are ten dimensions or twenty six or umpteen million, and whether or not the infinite parallel reality theory meshes with the limitless universe theory meshes with the everything that could ever possibly happen does happen theory, and other such koo-koo bananas theories which have as much weight as the big crunch and the big rip and the heat death theories about the universe ending, in that they can't all be true, at least in regards to this universe. Finally, if there are other universes.... but they are connected to this one... then they aren't really other universes, are they, Einstein? Same reality, same universe. That's why they call it a universe. Separating one parallel reality from this one if it is possible to share matter or energy between them means that the division of realities is as arbitrary as a political border on a map; the boundary only really exists because we say it does. What prevents me from saying the sun is in a different reality from mine, except for the light I perceive of course? Now, let's define our terms...


Yada yada, bottom line is human beings will never know everything. What happens to our bodies after death is known, but our consciousness, our connection to this universe, does it suddenly cease to exist? Does it fade away? Will we retain memories? Will there be an afterlife? Reincarnation? Or is it simply empty nothingness?

The big answers to the big questions will always be "I don't know" and science may never, ever answer these questions. So long as the unknown exists, belief will also exist to help explain the unknown. And opinion is another thing, there will be political and philosophical differences always, regardless of scientific or mathematical or historical data which suggests some ways of living are more harmonious and efficient than others. Science will never fully contradict a person's right to an opinion. And some answers are not the same for everyone. Some people are perfectly happy in a government-run bureaucracy, others are happier in a theocracy, some are happy in a libertarian paradise. There are no end-all be-all answers to personal questions. Some people will always believe in certain religious philosophies, and while the tenets of those faiths may change, or some religions may disappear or be reformed into something different, organized faith would seem to always exist. When people believe in something, they often seek those with similar beliefs. And then, an agreed upon structure seems to form, and in my opinion it all goes downhill from there, but others seem satisfied with it.

Religion will change. It has changed mightily since the beginning. What the majority of people believe right now will cease to exist... it may take thousands of years or millions, or it may take a few generations. But religion is a constantly shifting entity, and it is based on the beliefs of the living, who will die. Traditions change and eventually disappear. Society adapts to new knowledge, new trends, and new desires from people. In several generations, every religion will look at least slightly different... that is the way of things. Religion is a story which is added to and taken away from with every person who re-tells the story, or re-interprets it. Some things will take a long time to change, but the changes, although miniature, add up. Alterations to language have caused holy books to be translated and re-translated and updated to meet current dialects. Traditions are abolished, rules are altered, and beliefs are never quite harmonious. Splinter churches and sects emerge. Eventually, you reach a point where almost every single person believes a slightly different thing about the unknown, and you have what you should have (in my opinion) had all along: freedom.

And yet in our modern age, some people believe that shattering a mirror is bad luck, when any amount of testing would show the only way it is bad luck is if you injure yourself on the broken mirror. Some will always believe, regardless of what we think we know, and again, what we actually know is open for discussion, and what we don't know fills an entire universe, except for a little speck of dust contained within it.

[The Stranger]

science can explain life but it cant explain/tell us how to live, its free of morals... so when people turn to superstition, religion or spirituality they're not asking why do i live (in the scientific biological way) but why shouldn't I commit suicide? why should I live? and if there is a reason, how must I live?

science is actually a religion...

[CountArach]

science is actually a religion...

Science requires evidence. Religion does not.

[Askthepizzaguy]

science can explain life but it cant explain/tell us how to live, its free of morals...

In my opinion-

One reason why a secular/atheistic person agrees with about 90% of what a religious person would find immoral, is because what we consider morality is really common sense, and it really is stuff that we should know if we actually spent two seconds thinking about it. The rest is the "if you don't perform ritual A or praise deity B, you are a sinner" stuff which makes it faith rather than common sense. And then of course we focus solely on our differences instead of our commonalities, and the perception of a larger division in society exists, when we should be living in relative harmony.

science is actually a religion...

One begins with the premise that we do not know and must discover, the other begins with the premise that we do know and must reject other theories. They are totally incompatible.

[Beskar]

Science is falsifiable.

Religion is non-falsifiable.