I have truly had enough

**The Stranger** · 10-07-2009, 13:59

I support Sartre. If you have a problem with it, do something about it. Instead of ranting and raving and pointing fingers. Instead of voting every four years, screw the vote and change the people that are governed, not the governers. In order for a country to change the people have to change, democratic politics is powerless. They can't rule, they only govern, and in Holland they only compromise.

**Husar** · 10-07-2009, 14:42

Originally Posted by The Stranger

I support Sartre. If you have a problem with it, do something about it. Instead of ranting and raving and pointing fingers. Instead of voting every four years, screw the vote and change the people that are governed, not the governers. In order for a country to change the people have to change, democratic politics is powerless. They can't rule, they only govern, and in Holland they only compromise.

Well, ranting about it is an attempt to change the people, isn't it?
With your rant you try to get attention and convince people that something needs to be done. Those convinced would ideally spread the message, you can't discuss this one-on-one with several million other people. You however sound like you are not going to spread Fragony's message and are thus passively undermining his effort, yet accuse him of not doing enough, pure hypocrisy.

**The Stranger** · 10-07-2009, 14:56

Originally Posted by Husar

Well, ranting about it is an attempt to change the people, isn't it?
With your rant you try to get attention and convince people that something needs to be done. Those convinced would ideally spread the message, you can't discuss this one-on-one with several million other people. You however sound like you are not going to spread Fragony's message and are thus passively undermining his effort, yet accuse him of not doing enough, pure hypocrisy.

that is very true. But in your rant you mustnt place the fault solely in other people. I dont agree with frag entirely (maybe largely), but that doesnt mean I'm not helping in the process. Im also spreading a message. Not only, im trying to put the message in to practise.

**Strike For The South** · 10-07-2009, 15:26

See kids, This is what happens when you have SOCIALISM!

**Husar** · 10-07-2009, 17:29

Originally Posted by The Stranger

that is very true. But in your rant you mustnt place the fault solely in other people. I dont agree with frag entirely (maybe largely), but that doesnt mean I'm not helping in the process. Im also spreading a message. Not only, im trying to put the message in to practise.

Yes, true, but what if it's really just other people who are to blame? You cannot blame society at large for every mistake the government makes, once they have been voted in they can do things or not do things without the approval of society at large.

Originally Posted by Strike For The South

See kids, This is what happens when you have SOCIALISM!

No, what we see here is what happens when you have a lack of socialism, in socialism the roofs would be spread equally to all people in need of one and there would be noone left out.
The whole thing about sending them on holiday instead of jailing them is hardly a socialist issue and sounds rather untrue to me anyway. I have however heard of areas in cities that the police don't or don't like to patrol because they're so dangerous, that can happen in a lot of countries and should IMO be countered by highly increased police activity, or just build a wall around it like some do.

**The Stranger** · 10-07-2009, 18:40

Originally Posted by Husar

Yes, true, but what if it's really just other people who are to blame? You cannot blame society at large for every mistake the government makes, once they have been voted in they can do things or not do things without the approval of society at large.

No, what we see here is what happens when you have a lack of socialism, in socialism the roofs would be spread equally to all people in need of one and there would be noone left out.
The whole thing about sending them on holiday instead of jailing them is hardly a socialist issue and sounds rather untrue to me anyway. I have however heard of areas in cities that the police don't or don't like to patrol because they're so dangerous, that can happen in a lot of countries and should IMO be countered by highly increased police activity, or just build a wall around it like some do.

they cannot DIRECTLY be held responsible for what the goverment does, but they ARE INDIRECTLY responsible for what the government does, simply because the goverment can only remain in practise as long as the people allow it.

**Samurai Waki** · 10-07-2009, 18:45

Well, Frag, if you're tired of the ultra liberal whack jobs in the Netherlands, you can live in the US (preferably Texas) and experience all the Conservative whack jobs you can handle.

**Husar** · 10-07-2009, 20:53

Originally Posted by The Stranger

they cannot DIRECTLY be held responsible for what the goverment does, but they ARE INDIRECTLY responsible for what the government does, simply because the goverment can only remain in practise as long as the people allow it.

No, elections are held every four years and not whenever the people don't want the government anymore.

**Megas Methuselah** · 10-07-2009, 23:21

Originally Posted by Strike For The South

See kids, This is what happens when you have SOCIALISM!

I know, isn't it great?!

**Fragony** · 10-07-2009, 15:28

You are making the classical leftist mistake Tribesy, you can't make a difference between what you want and what is.

**Ser Clegane** · 10-07-2009, 15:30

I would highly appreciate if this thread stayed civil.

I think the discussion of the pros and cons of alternative ways to handle juvenile offenders deserves a bit more than flaming other patrons.

Thanks