EB 1.1 AI and Nval invasions

[Macilrille]

It did it!!! A lot!!

Not conquering Messana as Rome I had peace with Carthage until 189 BC (I am faithful to allies though I know they will backstab me at some point). Carthage had conquered it and after I broke the back of the Grey Death (that owed everything after killing the Ptolomoi)) they advanced to the Nile as well. Iberia was mine as was Greece and the Balcans to Byzantium.

45 Regions in hand I was merely waiting to reform the army and occasionally fighting off AS and Gallic incursions (you got to love Cretan Archers against unarmoured barbarians crossing bridges), when the evil, nasty and scheeming Punes launched an attack on Rhegion across the straits of Messana, and...
A naval invasion of Crete!!!

Further, I sank four (!!!) Carthaginian fleets with large armies aboard the two following turns (my navy had grown large for RP reasons and experienced fighting AS and pirates even to the Botnian Bay).

That, however, would be five invasions/reinforcements by sea in EB 1.1!

Never seen or heard of that before. Carthage sails a bit and might invade once or twice, but five invasion fleets + armies! I loved it.

Just wanted to say that, now for bed and sleep. Sleep well all and have a nice weekend.

[DaciaJC]

The crucial question: what .exe do you use?

Five naval invasions... nice. Enjoy your weekend as well.

[Opressor]

What's the most ridiculous naval invasion you've seen? Like I dunno, Lusotann invading Anatolia?

[Macilrille]

Good Gods!! The KH launched a fleet loaded with troops from Rhodes towards their old home as well (the weakest faction declaring war on the strongest...). It literally teems with naval invasions compared to what we are used to. And both AS, Carthage and KH has built fleets that I had to subdue, so my own fleets are actually seeing action agsinst real enemies, not just pirates and RP.

I have not changed the exe, it is the usual RTW-EB 1.1 exe.

[Finn MacCumhail]

Lucky you are. I don't know, but in my Romani campaign the only faction that has fleet is mine. I haven't seen even pirates. In fact Carthage had fleet, but after I conquered them no fleet at all!
In other campaigns (exe 1.2) KH, Karthage and Ptolies do use fleet to conquer islands, but thats it.

The most weird naval invasion I saw in Med 2 when Scotland lived in former Mauritanian castle in modern Spain. And as their motherland was conquered by English army, they have found new homeland there.

[IrishHitman]

Carthage sent a naval force when I conquered Sicily, Sardinia and Corsica in my current Romani campaign, but I haven't heard anything from them since...

[Macilrille]

Well after I defeated those fleets, no new ones were built- only piracy :-(

in MTW II Gold I have loads of naval invasions when I play that, loads!

[Skuda]

I think fleet in EB is much too costly. I lowered costs both for construction and upkeep twice and the richest factons - Carthage and Ptolemies started building navy though they have still no more than two-three ships.

[Subotan]

[QUOTE=Skuda;2350238]I think fleet in EB is much too costly.QUOTE]

Fleets were costly in real life. Each card represents a fleet of ships.

[seienchin]

I think fleet in EB is much too costly. I lowered costs both for construction and upkeep twice and the richest factons - Carthage and Ptolemies started building navy though they have still no more than two-three ships.

Thats the point. And the abscence of military ports in most of the regions.
Its a real gamebreaker. I hope EBII will improve in that point.
PS: The exe. has nothing to do with the naval invasions.

[Skullheadhq]

The exe has to do with it

[seienchin]

The exe has to do with it

Dont make me laugh
When was the last time you played vanilla rome.exe???
There are naval invasion all the time.
The strat map Ai in Vanilla is lightyears ahead of EB. Only the strat map AI of course

[DaciaJC]

That may be so (I wouldn't know, I haven't played vanilla in quite some time), but that isn't what we're discussing. There are numerous claims that EB used with BI or ALX.exe produces more naval invasions than just EB used with default RTW.exe.

[moonburn]

well i believe that fleets should cost 100 times more in population cause it wasn´t just the gold wasted it was also a great deal of manpower being used there

the 1st punic war was very costly in terms of men for both sides due to the constant naval batles

[A Very Super Market]

That isn't how it works. Population is tied directly to unit size.

[Macilrille]

If I may go back to the OP (by me); as I said it stopped after I wiped their fleets. Howecer toggle:FOW showed me a massive AS navy with a fullstack and three FMs aboard in The Persian Gulf (really massive, 14 or 16 ships, 5 or 6 of those really big ones that Romans cannot build, the rest a mix).

After it had just lain there for 2 years and with AS doing ok against Saba I decided to teleport it to the Mediterrenean where it soon started playing havov with my possessions and fleets. I have only 3- 4 ship squadrons usually, two in the East Med each consisting of 1-2 Quinquiremes, 0-1 of the second-largest, 1-3 Covered Liburnes, all with 1-3 silver and gold chevrons. the AS fleet wrecked massive havos and I spent huge amounts of Mnai repairing these ships after a string of defeats as well as building a new Quinquireme and Covered Liburnian, and transferring my W. Med fleet of 2 Quinquireme, 1 secon-largest and 3 Covered Liburnes to the East before I finally sank it.

Yes, you can say I cheated and harmed the AS by it, but it cost me massive amounts of Mnai and as it were they were so impassive that the FMs would have finally died of old age without achieving anything there in The Gulf. And, more importantly, it was huge fun and I actually felt threatened and had to react to his moves, not the other way round and since I am by far the strongest power in game that has not happened for a couple of generations.

My next "surprise" for myself will probably be to teleport those four Casse fullstacks, just hanging around doing nothing, to my Gallic provinces while I am in full-scale offensive against AS. That way I will have to scramble to defend against them and assemble an army from scratch, especially as the Legions (and those defensive ships) I have built for the AS offensive have put me from 500k Mnai to only balancing between 0 and 30k every round. Not actually being able to build anything but the most necessary buildings and gambling all on conquest of Asia Minor.

[Macilrille]

Oooooh during my offensive in Asia Minor I just had one of my ten best battles ever!!!

AS with a balanced fullstack of 6 Phalangati of various sorts, 2 Ethiopian Swordsmen, 2 Galatian Wild Men, 4 Classical Hoplites, various other heavy infantry, two 100+ retinue FMs. 1-5 Exp.

I had 3 Cretan Archers, 1 Ligurie Epos, 1 Brihentin, 1 Merc Greek General, 1 FM, 1 Cordinae Orca (? Scordisci Swordsmen), 1 Rhomphaioi, 1 1st Cohort, 3 Evocatii, 3 Antesignanii, 4 Cohortes Reformata. Brihentin 5 Exp, one Cretan 1 Exp, rest none.

All troops on both sides upgraded by Blacksmith.

I took position on a sparsely forested ridge (most of the map was more or less forested), with my cavalry on the flanks, the Roman infantry in two lines and the Cretans and Auxilia infantry in a third line behind. Wisely the AI kept its FMs behind its lines- uncharacteristically not rushing forwards. and moved most of its infantry forwards as one line with only two units behind as reserve, thus outflanking me hugely on my left. To counter this I sent my cavalry even further out, waiting to hit the flanking force in the back if necessary.

My archers made little difference because of the trees and the fact that I faced heavy infantry. That I could not flank with those two old wardogs of FMs waiting for me behind the line (both were old-ish and had seen enough war to have 5 Exp each, 123 retinue and ~100), made my cavalry and the archers' secondary option ineffective as well.

So his left engaged my Right flank and I noticed all his Hoplites and some other heavy infantry there and figured with a bit of additional pressure I could break them, and sent in something like 9 vs 7 on that flank, keeping the Phalangites in the centre at bay with the rest as they eventually moved in as well. I also sent my Ligurie Epos behind my line to that flank, figuring its javelins and possible small flanking support of an Evocatii would tip things.

This all took what felt like hours, but 12-13 mins on the battle timer and the infantry engaged in a slugging match. Knowing that Phalangati are not easy meat from the front I was starting to sweat as both sides' losses mounted at an alarming rate- it was a bloodbath in that infantry battle (quite realistic I believe). Then a Phalanx routs from the centre to my amazement, soon followed by the remains of a Hoplite and one of my CR's as one AS FM slams into my centre.

This allows me to take on his covering force on the L Flank of an Ethiopian Swordsman and large FM with the Brihentin and General+FM respectively. With the Ligurian Epos finally hitting a hoplite on the R flank in the back, eventually it routs.

It took four charges from the Brihentin and a pincer attack enveloping the FM, later supported by the Brihentin as the ES finally routs, reduced to 15, to break that flank. Meanwhile as the Hoplite on the R flees, another follows suit and I can send off the Li Ep in hot pursuit (they have a nasty habit of rallying or getting away) with the Reformed Cohort and 1st Cohort hitting the next unit in in the flank and back the front is quickly rolled up from my R flank. It was not the Cav that did the hard work though, it was the Marian Legionaires and Auxilia. Sheer bloodbath and even had it not ended in a Heroic it would still be top10 for my battles.

The AI acted almost intelligently and proved a challenge to beat!!!

Meanwhile the AS has rebuilt a decent fleet in the Persian Gulf and is sailing an army around doing nothing at all. I suppose it is for Saba, but it never does anything. I might transfer that to the Med as well, symbolising a counteroffensive against me supply lines and newly conquered territories. Despite app 18 fullstacks from AS and 4 from Pontos facing my 8, that would add to the fun- and endanger my offensive as I push inland, we shall see.

[Subotan]

well i believe that fleets should cost 100 times more in population cause it wasn´t just the gold wasted it was also a great deal of manpower being used there

the 1st punic war was very costly in terms of men for both sides due to the constant naval batles

The numbers on the unit cards can either represent ships, or men. Since ships are both more practical, and it makes more sense, that's what the EB team have decided to do.