Europe

[Beskar]

What's the saying? Competition breeds excellence? Something like that.

Also violence and elitism.

Because it isn't change for the better, it's change for the sake of change - change for the worse!

No, that would be having a Monarch to govern all of Europe, or even a Monarch full-stop.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Also violence and elitism.

No. Those have always been there and will always be there. Those are problems (are they even always problematic? That's another discussion.) that will never be removed by society.

No, that would be having a Monarch to govern all of Europe, or even a Monarch full-stop.

Which doesn't really relate, at least not until the very unlikely chance that we get Emperor Barroso I or Emperor Blair I.

[Beskar]

No. Those have always been there and will always be there. Those are problems (are they even always problematic? That's another discussion.) that will never be removed by society

Yet you can remove many of the causes and divides and many people can be open minded.

Remove nation aspect and you don't have nations fighting for superiority with one another, as exampled in the first and second world wars.

Make people equal, promote an open culture.

Contrary to what many believe, evils of losing a culture are mainly superficial when replaced by an open culture. Just because people over there eat curry opposed to sushi, doesn't mean have same legal/political framework is going to some how replace all the choices and lifestyles with porridge.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

So physical size? That's even more disproportionate.

Its some mythical entity that some mantain exsist that binds some together and seperates them from others...

Wrong again.

What's the saying? Competition breeds excellence? Something like that.

Yes and I would rather be Tesco competing with ASDA and the other big brands than my corner shop down the road scraping by... there will still be competition, internally for products and externally with the big powers as a powerful entity than a small pawn on thier chess board.

We will not see the same competition, especially if the goal of internationalists is met. I've said it once, I'll say it again - if you've been a powerful entity once, you can be it again. You just need the political will. If you invest the same political will for European integration into national betterment, you will see huge improvements.

Yet you can remove many of the causes and divides and many people can be open minded.

This is wishful thinking. People will always find something. Next it will be money, and we'll have to redistribute all money from the rich to give the poor people an equal amount so that there is no divide that way and nobody gets left out.

Wait, that's been tried.

Remove nation aspect and you don't have nations fighting for superiority with one another, as exampled in the first and second world wars.

No, you have supernational entities fighting each other, or internal civil wars, etc. Where are the wars in North America? In Western Europe? We're doing OK as it is. What makes you think that we'll all be one big happy family under world government or supernational government? We won't.

You're also ignoring the other causes of the First and Second World Wars. It wasn't just about nationalism. It isn't as if the various countries or federal entities in the world aren't going to fight one another anyway. We'll always find something to kill. Call it a problem of human nature, but don't call it a problem of the nation, because it has existed long before that - and proportionately, on a similar scale.

Make people equal, promote an open culture.

All for being open to others. I just don't want you to force me into something that I don't want to be in. That's hardly very open to other points of view, is it?

Contrary to what many believe, evils of losing a culture are mainly superficial when replaced by an open culture.

What?!?!?! Losing your culture is OK?

That attitude makes me hate internationalists. Culture is an amazing thing, having so many different cultures all around the world is so beautiful. The fact I can go to France and see one culture, and then drive to the Czech Republic and see another totally different one is the reason I love to travel. Why bother when everything is homogenized, with a standard "human" culture?

[LittleGrizzly]

That attitude makes me hate internationalists. Culture is an amazing thing, having so many different cultures all around the world is so beautiful. The fact I can go to France and see one culture, and then drive to the Czech Republic and see another totally different one is the reason I love to travel. Why bother when everything is homogenized, with a standard "human" culture?

Maybe Wales is some freaky different place but there slight changes in culture all over the place... North vs South is certainly different, then you get to England...n haven't even got the same national sport (as in no.1 sport) as Wales, don't do all this silly dress up stuff on st davids day and haven't got some stange obsession with leeks..

In conclusion being part of one goverment entity doesn't really effect culture all that much... so no worrys....

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Maybe Wales is some freaky different place but there slight changes in culture all over the place... North vs South is certainly different, then you get to England...n haven't even got the same national sport (as in no.1 sport) as Wales, don't do all this silly dress up stuff on st davids day and haven't got some stange obsession with leeks..

In conclusion being part of one goverment entity doesn't really effect culture all that much... so no worrys....

Sometimes you can keep your culture, sometimes you are assimilated. It depends on the situation and can happen either way, quickly or over a hundred years. That isn't what I was responding to though - I was responding to his assertion that losing your culture is OK.

[Beskar]

What?!?!?! Losing your culture is OK?

That attitude makes me hate internationalists. Culture is an amazing thing, having so many different cultures all around the world is so beautiful. The fact I can go to France and see one culture, and then drive to the Czech Republic and see another totally different one is the reason I love to travel. Why bother when everything is homogenized, with a standard "human" culture?

Funnily enough, I believe I said this.

Contrary to what many believe, evils of losing a culture are mainly superficial when replaced by an open culture.

What would you lose? You would still have French with berets with stripy jumpers, you will still have Japanese eating sushi, you will still have Curry night on Thursdays. The whoile idea that internationalist agenda creates a bland and exact sameness everywhere is superficial. An open culture is open to all the facets of learning, experimentation and being open to others of different cultures. You can easily go to Japan and learn about the Shogunate's and that will never change, just like trying and adopting features like trying out curry. The whole openess doesn't actually remove anyway, it only adds.

Your arguments are just alarmist and superficial with no grounding in reality.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Funnily enough, I believe I said this.

No, you said that losing your own culture is fine and dandy as long as you replace it with a culture that accepts everything. If not, your wording was off and you may want to elaborate.

I mean, are all the nations in the EU identical in culture, and if it became a Federal State, why would they just suddenly become the same. Your arguments are just alarmist and superficial with no grounding in reality.

I didn't say that they would all become the same, but eventually it may well homogenize - if it isn't torn apart by the differences first.

[LittleGrizzly]

So physical size? That's even more disproportionate.

Its some mythical entity that some mantain exsist that binds some together and seperates them from others...

What's the saying? Competition breeds excellence? Something like that.

Yes and I would rather be Tesco competing with ASDA and the other big brands than my corner shop down the road scraping by... there will still be competition, internally for products and externally with the big powers as a powerful entity than a small pawn on thier chess board.