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Thread: I really hate those magically ever respawning bodyguards...

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  1. #1
    Arrogant Ashigaru Moderator Ludens's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: I really hate those magically ever respawning bodyguards...

    Quote Originally Posted by Darius View Post
    Would it be at all possible to adjust the rate at which the Bodyguards are replenished to something a bit slower?
    Unfortunately not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluvius Camillus View Post
    Bodyguard number is tied to personal security.
    According to the Ludus Magna thread, it's tied to security and influence, but this is for R:TW, not M2:TW.

    Quote Originally Posted by Julianus View Post
    For example, a Roman consul should have a bodyguard of 16 lictors, a praetor 8, etc (correct me if my memory fails me ).
    I am not sure if the lictors had a role on the battlefield. Roman generals weren't supposed to join the fighting anyway. Also, following this reasoning the Hellenistic kings should get a full complement of hetairos to accompany them. That would not be fair to the Romans.
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    Default Re: I really hate those magically ever respawning bodyguards...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludens View Post
    I am not sure if the lictors had a role on the battlefield. Roman generals weren't supposed to join the fighting anyway. Also, following this reasoning the Hellenistic kings should get a full complement of hetairos to accompany them. That would not be fair to the Romans.
    Lictors may not actually fight alot, but they apparently followed the consuls nearly everywhere they went, battlefield no exception.

    In the life of Marcellus by Plutarch, when he went headlong into his doom by falling in to Hannibal's ambush, he went to view the place "taking with him his colleague Crispinus, and his son, a tribune of soldiers, with two hundred and twenty horse at most, (among whom there was not one Roman, but all were Etruscans, except forty Fregellans, of whose courage and fidelity he had on all occasions received full proof,) ... " and there were five lictors captured alive by the enemy.

    So we can see at least Roman generals didn't have any private bodyguard. When he was commanding a set battle, all army were his bodyguard, when he left his army to do some reconnaissance etc, he took whatever troops he deemed most handy, usually cavalry. And only the lictors always followed him, even when they were not necessary, as in Marcellus's death, doing some reconnaissance didn't really need lictors to show his authority at all.

    And according to what I learn from Plutarch, Greek city state generals didn't have bodyguards maintained by themselves either, no matter how rich or powerful they are, thought I'm not familiar with barbarians.

    Yes, Hellenistic kings surrounded them with large number of hetairos, and often charged with them. But there're already hetairoi independently existed in game, they do not need to be in the same unit as the general to protect him, although I admit that it's a little tricky for the AI to do it, maybe we reduce only player's bodyguards, leave the AI's alone. Not sure if the kings maintained their bodyguard hetairoi at their own cost, even so replace those elite horsemen are extremely difficult, let alone in enemy territory or some newly conquered cities. So the kings have a large number of hetairoi bodyguard which can recover to it's full strength anywhere almost in 1 turn is not so realistic I fear.

  3. #3
    Villiage Idiot Member antisocialmunky's Avatar
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    Default Re: I really hate those magically ever respawning bodyguards...

    Um.... isn't it also tied to base bodyguard size of the unit? I've seen 160 sized KH BGs but only 100 sized cav BGs.
    Fighting isn't about winning, it's about depriving your enemy of all options except to lose.



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  4. #4
    Arrogant Ashigaru Moderator Ludens's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: I really hate those magically ever respawning bodyguards...

    Quote Originally Posted by Julianus View Post
    So we can see at least Roman generals didn't have any private bodyguard. When he was commanding a set battle, all army were his bodyguard, when he left his army to do some reconnaissance etc, he took whatever troops he deemed most handy, usually cavalry. And only the lictors always followed him, even when they were not necessary, as in Marcellus's death, doing some reconnaissance didn't really need lictors to show his authority at all.
    Interesting. Still, Goldsworthy argues strongly that Roman generals were not supposed to fight at all, so unlike Hellenistic kings they would not be attached to a combat unit.

    And according to what I learn from Plutarch, Greek city state generals didn't have bodyguards maintained by themselves either, no matter how rich or powerful they are, thought I'm not familiar with barbarians.
    I don't know much about the Greek poleis in EB's time, but the tyrants of earlier ages did have personal "mercenary" forces. These also doubled as the city defence force, as the tyrant was essentially the government. With Celts and Germans, an important noble would have a group of bondsmen that owed allegiance only to him. The size and quality of a nobleman's warband was a good indication of stature.

    Not sure if the kings maintained their bodyguard hetairoi at their own cost, even so replace those elite horsemen are extremely difficult, let alone in enemy territory or some newly conquered cities.
    I don't think there would have been a difference between the king's purse and the state's treasury, so yes, the hetairoi would have been maintained at the king's cost. Also, keep in mind that while you pay no upkeep for bodyguards, you do pay 200 mnai per turn per general.
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