I just bought M2TW...

[Knight of Heaven]

I just had a look at the SS mod. It does not seem much different from MTW II KDs to me, merely a slightly larger map. Definately not the EB of MTW that I had hoped.

Have you play the sub mods? 6.2 pacth, aswell RC/RR compilation its what i recomend. allthoug is still a work in process it is already a great thing very historical with manny historic events aswell. Deus lu vult is great also.
Realy i like EB very much, and i belive the moders did a great thing. But i dont see what is the fuss all about. i never was able to finish a campaing in EB becouse of the constant ctds, after battles is a game killer as i far im concerned. A battle who last 20 30 mim and then..bang have to do it again, its crazy. Allthoug i repeat i like EB very much is amazing but has his faults. As for one i find MEdiaval 2 and his mods way more stable then Rome mods. Overall.
what is with people and putting EB on a godly paramater above the others?! that can only be explained, by people who didnt try other mods sometimes. i think.

That is very unlikely to happen, another great passion and expertise of mine is Tolkien, so something both ahistorical and likely not accurate to Tolkien as well is more likely to upset me than please me ;-)

You will be suprised. i think Third age Total war is the mod with more depth, and enviroment out there. It takes much from tolkien books, and some , but few from the movies.
God you even have ents and trolls, in there. only that is amazing. wich are very hard to kill.

[runner3434]

Third Age total war is actually very faithful to Tolkein, you will see hole discussion over the law on there forums, over one small point, If you try it I think you will be pleasantly supprised.

[Olaf The Great]

SS is very good unless you play Ireland Norway Egypt or Turkey, their units haven't changed at all from vanilla, yet extensive work has been done on everyone else(even more so if you use the RR/RC mod pack).

[WinsingtonIII]

I just had a look at the SS mod. It does not seem much different from MTW II KDs to me, merely a slightly larger map. Definately not the EB of MTW that I had hoped.

I don't know if you noticed this Macilrille, but I posted earlier in this thread about Chivalry II: The Sicilian Vespers. Personally, that's the closest you're going to get to an EB-like mod for M2TW. There is an AOR, all of the factions and cities are in their native tongue (some Catholic factions are in Latin, but that was the predominant written language of Catholic Europe), many units have been redone, reskinned, and renamed, plus there are new units that weren't in vanilla. All in all, it's a mod that strives for historical accuracy, just like EB. I personally feel like Stainless Steel is more focused on gameplay, with history often coming second, although it is a good mod. Chivalry II really tries to put the history first, but the gameplay is still improved from vanilla as well in my opinion. I also think it does a better job with the history than Deus Lo Vult, which used to be my favorite M2TW mod until I discovered Chivalry.

If anyone wants to see more about it, I'm thinking about writing an AAR about my current Poland campaign once it heats up a little more, but I might not get going on it until a couple weeks from now.

[seienchin]

Third Age total war is actually very faithful to Tolkein, you will see hole discussion over the law on there forums, over one small point, If you try it I think you will be pleasantly supprised.

Wait... One orc units beats the dismounted kings guard of rohan...
Im not sure if this is faithfull...

[king of thracia]

EB is a mod above the others. It is the only mod I play having tried many other mods and the only thing that makes the Total War series worthwhile for me. Didn't much like SS

[Macilrille]

First, I am a Tolkien Fundamentalist, I hate the films and PJ. As I told Seienchin in private I want to face PJ in a swordfight with sharp swords so I can cut his fat gut open and watch him try to keep his innards in while slowly dying. Call me the Bin Laden, Mullah Omar or Ayatollah of Tolkien I care not.

I am very- very much a purist there. I can stretch myself to accept most of ICE's old MERP stuff, but no more than that.

Thus, I suspect TATW is not for me.

Second, my main historical field of research is Danish Viking- Middle Age, I wrote my Ma Thesis on that and am still one of the leading experts in the field, and unless something can fulfill my expectations in that field as EB does for RTW, I am likely to be dissatisfied...


So, I ask you; is there any mod for MTWII Kingdoms that can live up to what EB is for RTW? Especially one focusing on N. Europe and Scandinavia?

[Cute Wolf]

Wait... One orc units beats the dismounted kings guard of rohan...
Im not sure if this is faithfull...

They beat in frontal combat, using their sheer numbers... I also play TATW, but with human factions, you should try to use your brain, while the orcs only need to charge forward....

[Skullheadhq]

So, I ask you; is there any mod for MTWII Kingdoms that can live up to what EB is for RTW? Especially one focusing on N. Europe and Scandinavia?

Europa Barbarorum II?

[Macilrille]

If only, but I anticipate no EB II the next two- three years.

[Skullheadhq]

If only, but I anticipate no EB II the next two- three years.

I hope, sir, that you're wrong.

[seienchin]

They beat in frontal combat, using their sheer numbers... I also play TATW, but with human factions, you should try to use your brain, while the orcs only need to charge forward....

Yeah and there the people dont get the tolkien message. Everything is a question of blood. Nobel humans or elves are way more powerfull than simple orks. Way more. In the first age wars single elbs killed balrogs. Even with their power vanishing elves are still way better than orcs and so are human.
Sorry for offtopic

[Subotan]

First, I am a Tolkien Fundamentalist, I hate the films and PJ. As I told Seienchin in private I want to face PJ in a swordfight with sharp swords so I can cut his fat gut open and watch him try to keep his innards in while slowly dying. Call me the Bin Laden, Mullah Omar or Ayatollah of Tolkien I care not.

Surely the fact that PJ has brought Tolkein to a wider audience is something that should be appreciated, regardless of whether he includes Tom Bombadil or not, or doesn't spend the first half of the Fellowship on a bloody mushroom farm. He still includes the core message of Tolkein, and when you think about, it could have been a lot, lot worse.

Also, is there a First Age Total War? Belegost FTW

[antisocialmunky]

They beat in frontal combat, using their sheer numbers... I also play TATW, but with human factions, you should try to use your brain, while the orcs only need to charge forward....

You should play real combat though some of the changes are really borked since the orcs are given terrible armor and weapon values and die by the hrodes to even Gondorians. Also the Dwarves and Elves become ridiculous. I remember taking out 3000 Urukai with cave troll support with about 400 High Elves.

So yeah, 6-1 is good odds for any Elf or Dwarf.

[WinsingtonIII]

So, I ask you; is there any mod for MTWII Kingdoms that can live up to what EB is for RTW? Especially one focusing on N. Europe and Scandinavia?

Macilrille, I don't know if you didn't notice my earlier post, but I really do think Chivalry II: The Sicilian Vespers is the closest thing that you can get. Just check it out at http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=354. Of course, I'm assuming here that you want an EB for the medieval era. If you're looking for the classical era I can't help you. Chiv II isn't quite the level of EB, but I suggest you give it a shot. If you want more focus on Northern Europe and Scandinavia, you may want to do the Dark Ages Era campaign instead of one of the others. However, this campaign is still in beta so it's not perfected yet.

[Atraphoenix]

I just play broken crescent and Long Road on it.

[Macilrille]

Thanks Winsington, I am going to give it a try. DL as I write.

[Knight of Heaven]

Macilrille, I don't know if you didn't notice my earlier post, but I really do think Chivalry II: The Sicilian Vespers is the closest thing that you can get. Just check it out at http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=354. Of course, I'm assuming here that you want an EB for the medieval era. If you're looking for the classical era I can't help you. Chiv II isn't quite the level of EB, but I suggest you give it a shot. If you want more focus on Northern Europe and Scandinavia, you may want to do the Dark Ages Era campaign instead of one of the others. However, this campaign is still in beta so it's not perfected yet.

Chivalry 2 is a work in the process. i belive its very good on the historical part , a nice aor system, and great building construction. the system is well put it. but it need some tweaks thats all. it has one or 2 historical error that i was able to identify. for example on late campaing Portugal werent named regium Navarre. its a major error. but in all its a great efort who a project who had a great future if the work continues on.

Broken crescent 2.02 it meets the requirements of a EB in M2tw engine. but its about midle east.


I agree the Lord of the Rings movies in manny ways arent the same as the books, but regards that they are one of the best movies ever made in cinema. It is uninportant to be faithfull to Tolkien books. Its the maker vision, based of the books. You just have to put things on the context.
It couldnt be the same, it just couldnt.

And if you want real historical acurracy in a video game try europa universalis. you will certainly have that. vikings and everything.

[WinsingtonIII]

Chivalry 2 is a work in the process. i belive its very good on the historical part , a nice aor system, and great building construction. the system is well put it. but it need some tweaks thats all. it has one or 2 historical error that i was able to identify. for example on late campaing Portugal werent named regium Navarre. its a major error. but in all its a great efort who a project who had a great future if the work continues on.

Oh I agree certainly. It definitely is not done, but it is a huge step in the right direction, and I believe it takes that step further than any of the other medieval mods. I think the reason that there are still errors, even in the non-beta campaigns is because there is only one modder working on the project at this point, so he has to fix everything, and it takes awhile for new versions to come out because of that.

Thanks Winsington, I am going to give it a try. DL as I write.

No problem! I hope you enjoy it. Just keep in mind what Knight of Heaven said about how it's not perfected and don't set the bar too high.

[Macilrille]

Suffice it to say I do not believe it was necessary to change anything in the films to meet the lowest common denominator. It may not even be so low as PJ and others believe. However, that is neither here nor there, so I shall now be quiet on the subject of Tolkien.

EU I know, I only have EUII I love the historical accuracy, but dislike the fact that the AI cheats and you cannot triumph as a player (without cheating, which does not feel the same)- or perhaps it is but I who have not sussed the system.

Chivalry...

I tried the Dark Age campaign as Denmark and I am... unimpressed.

+Buildings are different and nicer.
+Bayex Tapestry on the battle screens :-)

-Units are not that different from Vanilla that it feels different (EB spoiled me there).
-The Names of Danes are still something out of a mixture of High Middle Age, Icelandic Sagas and Greenland and that was one of the things that put me off the most on Vanilla too (come on, NO Norse was named some escimo name!). It would take so little research, or merely a mail to me, and they would have hundreds of Viking and Medieval Names.
-Non re-written faction descriptions and names when you pass cursor over unit.

It will require more tries to pass a final judgement whether I like it or not. I guess EB has spoiled me...

[WinsingtonIII]

Chivalry...

I tried the Dark Age campaign as Denmark and I am... unimpressed.

+Buildings are different and nicer.
+Bayex Tapestry on the battle screens :-)

-Units are not that different from Vanilla that it feels different (EB spoiled me there).
-The Names of Danes are still something out of a mixture of High Middle Age, Icelandic Sagas and Greenland and that was one of the things that put me off the most on Vanilla too (come on, NO Norse was named some escimo name!). It would take so little research, or merely a mail to me, and they would have hundreds of Viking and Medieval Names.
-Non re-written faction descriptions and names when you pass cursor over unit.

It will require more tries to pass a final judgement whether I like it or not. I guess EB has spoiled me...

Yeah some parts of the mod do not change enough or haven't had a chance to change enough. Remember that the Dark Age campaign is version 0.01 beta (like literally the first beta of it to be released ever). It's therefore not the best campaign to judge the entire mod by, as it is even more of a work in progress than the early, high, or late campaigns. Also, I think Northern and Western Europe was the area that received the least amount of attention in terms of new units, which is really unfortunate in my opinion. The Byzantines, Rus, Hungarians, Sicilians, the various Balkan factions, and the Islamic factions seem to have received the most new units as far as I can tell. The Byzantines have a pretty much entirely new roster actually if I remember correctly.

Look, I'll be the first to admit, it's no EB, and trust me, the incorrect faction descriptions annoy me as well, but you have to remember that this is the ongoing work of one person. If there was a true EB for the medieval era, I would certainly be playing it over Chivalry, but there isn't. Chivalry takes it a step in the right direction, and if you play Stainless Steel or Deus Lo Vult, you'll see it takes that step much further than they do, because those mods both keep much more of the original vanilla material than Chivalry does.

EB has spoiled all of us I think, Chivalry was the best I could personally find after playing 5 other medieval era mods. Now all that's left to do is wait for Dominion of the Sword to come out (if it ever does). That looks like it could actually be what we're both looking for.

I'm sorry it didn't meet your expectations, and if I use EB as a model, it doesn't meet mine either, but I want to play a medieval era mod, and this is the one that feels best to me. If you want to try a faction that has been almost completely overhauled from vanilla, I would suggest Sicily in the Early (They're called Ducato de Apulia or something like that in the early camp) or High campaigns. They have a lot of interesting units.

I'm also sure that the mod developer would love to hear from you if you have information on Norse names, he seems to take constructive criticism to heart and do something about it.

[IrishHitman]

Compared with EB, MII is rather crap.

However, MII is far from unplayable in my opinion.
Sure, I hardly play it when EB is available, but if I want a change in time period or if I just want to kick the English in, MII is the only real option.

[Knight of Heaven]

Suffice it to say I do not believe it was necessary to change anything in the films to meet the lowest common denominator. It may not even be so low as PJ and others believe. However, that is neither here nor there, so I shall now be quiet on the subject of Tolkien.

EU I know, I only have EUII I love the historical accuracy, but dislike the fact that the AI cheats and you cannot triumph as a player (without cheating, which does not feel the same)- or perhaps it is but I who have not sussed the system.

Chivalry...

I tried the Dark Age campaign as Denmark and I am... unimpressed.

+Buildings are different and nicer.
+Bayex Tapestry on the battle screens :-)

-Units are not that different from Vanilla that it feels different (EB spoiled me there).
-The Names of Danes are still something out of a mixture of High Middle Age, Icelandic Sagas and Greenland and that was one of the things that put me off the most on Vanilla too (come on, NO Norse was named some escimo name!). It would take so little research, or merely a mail to me, and they would have hundreds of Viking and Medieval Names.
-Non re-written faction descriptions and names when you pass cursor over unit.

It will require more tries to pass a final judgement whether I like it or not. I guess EB has spoiled me...

The dark age campaing is not finished is a beta. compared to the others, and the mod is not finished yet, it needs some work. Remenber is only one guy doing this, if you dont like the names, then why wont you sugest of the sugestion threads?! Either way the guy says it so, the mod nees some tweekings.
Allthough i think it has a great potencial, the conceipt, and the ideia is very good. If the work continues on. Has for me im having much fun playing Jerusalem on high campaing, it uses some vaniila units and some new ones,but on the contrary to much mods im realy having fun, for a prolonged way, and best of all no ctds. a thing that bugs me the most on EB. Is the mod more unstable i played. but still i love EB, one must have pacience while playing it though.


Regards Lord of the rings, well what you say is probabiliy true, still, if you take the books out of the equation, you got a great piece of cinema ever made. For one one who doesnt like the "Movies", but like cinema in is true nature, Lord of the rings triology is still a work of art. And is briliant.

[Macilrille]

TKH and Winsington, you mean something like this:

As a historian and Viking Re-enactor I found that only EB in all the RTW series fulfilled my expectations and was looking for something similar for the medieval times, lauding the fact that there was none...

Another EB fan recommended this, so I have DL-ed it. I have a few comments and noticed a bug.

I tried the Dark Age campaign as Denmark and I am... unimpressed at first 4 hours of play.

Plus
+Buildings are different and seem improved.
+Bayex Tapestry on the battle screens
+Several differently timed campaigns Viking Age Campaign

Minuses
-Units are not that different from Vanilla that it feels different (EB spoiled me there, I miss more accurate units for Denmark 888 and I miss a more authentic look).
-The Names of Danes are still something out of a mixture of High Middle Age, Icelandic Sagas and Greenland and that was one of the things that put me off the most on Vanilla the few historical names mixed in only makes it worse... instead of complaining about this, I offer my service; mail me, and I shall see what I can do with Viking and Medieval Names.
-Non re-written faction descriptions and names when you pass cursor over unit.

It will require more tries to pass a final judgement whether I like it or not. I guess EB has spoiled me. But, the mod has promise and I realise that I played a campaign still in Beta Stage. I will play it some more and see what I think. EB has spoiled me, but also shown what a gargantuan work a mod is, so...

Cool job guys, it has much promise and if you need help on Danish Names and/or Danish Viking-Medieval history, military, etc, I hereby offer my assistance as a certified specialist in that.

? Posted that yesterday, tagging right after a post by TKH, BTW... I have the knowledge and of course I offer it.

[HunGeneral]

Well I'm going to buy MedII in a few days and plan to play the vanilla version for a while to see how well it gos on my comp. I also plan to try the "Magyar mod" and Broken crescent - these two have found my interrest - wether I might play anything else after it I don't know yet.

Although I suspect EB has spoiled me aswell since after having experienced EB I felt BI to be somewhat without depth although I enjoyed it much better earlier on...

[WinsingtonIII]

? Posted that yesterday, tagging right after a post by TKH, BTW... I have the knowledge and of course I offer it.

That's weird, did you edit the post? Because the post you quoted was different but still similar to the one you posted, I don't know how I didn't see it earlier.

I was never implying that you wouldn't offer the knowledge, I was merely noting that this particular mod developer seems especially open to constructive criticism and encouraging you to do so.

The only thing that I would specifically suggest that you didn't mention in your post is that when you do try out the mod more, using a non-Northern European faction may give you more change from vanilla, and that Sicily in particular has quite a few unique and new units.

It was just some friendly advice, not a criticism of your post.

[Macilrille]

I know, no worries. I just found another bug.

The post was a cut and paste...

[WinsingtonIII]

I know, no worries. I just found another bug.

The post was a cut and paste...

Oh I'm sorry Macilrille, I didn't realize that was the post you posted at the twcenter forum for Chivalry II. For some reason I thought it was the earlier post from here, except edited. I'm an idiot.

Just to make sure, you did restart the game before trying out each of the other campaigns other than the Dark Age, and each time you did you put in the proper letter (D, E, H, L, R) in the launch screen? If you didn't, that could explain the weird alliances/at war statuses, and why Denmark still appears to have Pagan temples in the later eras, because in my current Poland campaign (High Era), they are certainly Catholic, the Pope keeps on nicely reminding me of that when I fight them....

[Macilrille]

Yeps I did restart. Not that I mind Denmark being Pagan, I quite like it (being a Viking Re-enactor and all that), but still. The medieval historian inside me protests like mad. I could try and builld a Pagan tample and see if that makes me Christian...

You understand Luhman, you are no idiot ;-)

[WinsingtonIII]

Yeps I did restart. Not that I mind Denmark being Pagan, I quite like it (being a Viking Re-enactor and all that), but still. The medieval historian inside me protests like mad. I could try and builld a Pagan tample and see if that makes me Christian...

You understand Luhman, you are no idiot ;-)

Hmm that is strange. Yeah it might just be a bug, who knows. I have yet to play as Denmark in this mod, so I didn't know about this, maybe I'll check later today and see if I have the same problem.

And thanks for your confidence haha