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  1. #1
    Member Centurion1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shooting At Ft.Hood

    The person to blame is the shooter.

    He did it to make a statement and likely to end his life.

    Had it been only about deployment he could have resigned his commission and soon been back to work in most any military hospital in the states.

    Military Officers have no set term of service and can basically quit.

    He had other motives for staying in the Army.

    His religious views may have played a part but that should no more cover the whole religion than when any other religious nut does something as tragic.

    The last I heard he was unconscious.

    I do so hope he recovers from his wounds and faces what he has done.
    Just a clarification here. i just finished my marine corps and army rotc applications and this is how it works. 5 year active or 8 years reserve after college. if you are so lucky to get to be a medical porfessional they tack on two years for every year of medical school. you do your residency in the military. So he most likely wasnt quite done yet.


    My thoughts on this guy........
    complete coward i hope he burns, freezes, etc. in whatever hell you can imagine. He was a PSYCHOLOGIST. he would be on some of the most secure bases on Earrh while over there or maybe if he was lucky enough he would remain on a ship. Statistically he would probably be safer not like he would be going out on patrols in the afghani mountains.

    Second i think religion played a role in this event. do i think it was the one factor, no. but i do not think that it could ever have helped. He obviously followed a radical form of islam as can be seen by his idea that suicide bombers are like American soldiers who throw themselves on grenades.

    Thirdly i do not believe he was in any way shape or form suffering from ptsd. my cousin suffered from minor forms of ptsd after returning from iraq and another has nightmares after returning from a tour in afghanistan. The man cannot have ptsd, simply not possible.

    Fourthly, I find it very difficult to believe he was harassed. no one harasses a major in the United States Army. Lower ranks for obvious reasons and higher ranks because you don't reach lieutenant colonel and higher by being a d. bag. I doubt the man even received very much innocent ribbing.

    Fifthly, this man was insane, obviously.

    finally i hate this man so passionately for his cowardice. My cousins segeant was an arab-american (believe his parents were kuwaiti or something of that ilk) who happened to be a sunni muslim. He was according to my cousin one of the bravest men he had ever met and won a bronze (award for valor) star while over in iraq........ so i hope this guy gets the death penalty and is sent to his eternal punishment even sooner.

    Oh and does anyone else remember that guy right before desert storm (muslim) who threw a grenade into a tent of his comrades so he didnt have to fight........

  2. #2
    Chieftain of the Pudding Race Member Evil_Maniac From Mars's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shooting At Ft.Hood

    Quote Originally Posted by Centurion1 View Post
    Just a clarification here. i just finished my marine corps and army rotc applications and this is how it works. 5 year active or 8 years reserve after college. if you are so lucky to get to be a medical porfessional they tack on two years for every year of medical school. you do your residency in the military. So he most likely wasnt quite done yet.
    I think he started over ten years ago, but I'm not one hundred percent sure.

  3. #3
    Master of Few Words Senior Member KukriKhan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shooting At Ft.Hood

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar
    it can be very low-key yet so hurtful and I really wanted to fight back, just couldn't do it with words, neither with fists, you can guess where this can lead, you need something powerful, something they cannot just talk away, something that shows them and possibly makes them sorry about what they did... Singling out the guys who treated you worse while sparing those who had at least some compassion is also a way to keep thinking you are actually sane, just punishing those ********* who are treating you badly.
    I won't be surprised to read the FBI behavioralist's profile on our shooter going through exactly that kind of process, just before the shooting.

    Soldiers have a rough job. They talk rough among themselves, or when they're encouraged (like by a shrink whose job is to get feelings to the surface so they can be dealt with). Maybe after the 5 thousand, 3 hundred and thirty second reference he heard about "those camel jockeys" (or worse) he forgot that compartmentalization thing he learned in med school, and took it personally. Then went to work loaded for bear, waiting for "the next redneck who DARES say anything bad about my people". Everybody knows I love Devastatin' Dave - imagine if your job was to meet, greet and fix 20 of him every day...

    I'm not making excuses for the guy. Just trying to see the trigger. Soldiers have GOT to blow off steam. What's been damaged here (on top of the obvious deaths and wounded, ruined lives) is the underlying trust between soldiers; the assurance that despite the hardships endured and the horrors seen, THE ARMY (uniformed and vets, if not civilians) will institutionally understand. Now Officers, and in particular, Medical Officers, and even more particularly Med Officers with non-European nametags, will be more suspect by soldiers.

    Not good. He killed a dozen, wounded what, 30? 31 I say: the 31st being soldier brotherhood. In that way, he did more damage than obl on 911.
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  4. #4
    smell the glove Senior Member Major Robert Dump's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shooting At Ft.Hood

    Why do my posts keep disappearing? Am i timing out on my crappy wi-fi in BFE? I don't think I said anything offensive for a change wtf

    btw the post above mine is spot on. Teasing will always exist in the military and theres no way to fix it without firing everybody.
    Last edited by Major Robert Dump; 11-08-2009 at 07:00.
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    Banned Kadagar_AV's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shooting At Ft.Hood

    Teasing is one thing... harassment and bullying something else entirely. As a military officer you should know about this.

    I do not, however, think that ordinary teasing was what made this guy go get his guns.

  6. #6
    Chieftain of the Pudding Race Member Evil_Maniac From Mars's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shooting At Ft.Hood

    Quote Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV View Post
    Teasing is one thing... harassment and bullying something else entirely. As a military officer you should know about this.

    I do not, however, think that ordinary teasing was what made this guy go get his guns.
    I don't either. As said, the man was an officer. I doubt he was being harassed by ordinary soldiers or by his superiors.

  7. #7
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shooting At Ft.Hood

    Harassment is one of those things that is largely in the eye of the beholder. I recall one discussion regarding moderator efforts in multiplayer fora wherein many of the MP posters were aghast that they COULDN'T belittle and verbally abuse other MPers in their posts without moderator intervention. Their version of things suggested that such interaction was normal and that nobody in that milieu would ever construe it as harassing or mean.

    This is why all the harassment lawsuits require some "neutral" standard for judging harassment. Hasan may very well have felt harassed by a host of "little things" that in and of each "little thing" carried no meaning or intention to harass.

    Kukri made an excellent point. After the 200th client who -- in processing their own angst resultant from combat stress -- appeared callous or even happy at harming people who very much looked like, sounded like, and believed as did Major Hasan, he may have had trouble compartmentalizing things.

    We will learn much more over the coming months.


    Evil:

    The line between officers and enlisted in the USA is oddly blurred at points. Teasing and venting can take many forms and some of them, I am assured by those who have served, do function across categories. Perhaps Kukri or MRD could regale us with a tale or two regarding the likely results of an O-3 forcing a RSM to pop to attention in front of the troops or otherwise embarassing that NCO.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

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    L'Etranger Senior Member Banquo's Ghost's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shooting At Ft.Hood

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump View Post
    Why do my posts keep disappearing? Am i timing out on my crappy wi-fi in BFE? I don't think I said anything offensive for a change
    As far as I can tell, no moderator action has been taken against any of your posts.

    Kukri, Husar, Sasaki - very good, insightful posts, thank you. I'm still formulating an opinion, so such thoughts are very interesting.
    "If there is a sin against life, it consists not so much in despairing as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this one."
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  9. #9
    Senior Member Senior Member Fisherking's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shooting At Ft.Hood

    It is disturbing to me that a medical professional would do something like this. A Dr. who is supposed to be a healer.

    Evidently he had served with the Army for at least 12 years in some capacity, but what his required service time was would only be speculation.

    It is just my opinion but I think they guy brought on his own problems and did his religion a disservice by his actions.



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 





    By BRETT J. BLACKLEDGE, Associated Press Writer Brett J. Blackledge, Associated Press Writer – Sat Nov 7, 3:35 am ET

    WASHINGTON – He was by turns caring and contentious, a man quick to say "I am blessed" in casual greeting yet one who seemed to stew in discontent that he could not always keep to himself.

    Army psychiatrist Nidal Malik Hasan, suspect in the assault that killed 13 people at Fort Hood, Texas, and hurt 30, salved the emotional wounds of troops returning from war even as he objected to his own looming deployment to Afghanistan, where he was to counsel soldiers suffering from stress.

    But Hasan argued with fellow soldiers who supported U.S. war policy, say those who know him professionally and personally. He was a counselor who once required counseling for himself because of trouble he had dealing with some patients, said a former boss.

    Authorities on Friday seized Hasan's home computer, searched his apartment and took away a Dumpster as the 39-year-old Army major lay in a coma in the hospital, attached to a ventilator.

    There are many unknowns about the man authorities say is responsible for the worst mass killing on a U.S. military base.
    Most of all, his motive.

    For six years before reporting for duty at Fort Hood, in July, Hasan worked at the Walter Reed Army Medical Center pursuing his career in psychiatry, as an intern, a resident and, last year, a fellow in disaster and preventive psychiatry. He received his medical degree from the military's Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, Md., in 2001.

    While an intern at Walter Reed, Hasan had some "difficulties" that required counseling and extra supervision, said Dr. Thomas Grieger, who was the training director at the time.

    Grieger said privacy laws prevented him from going into details but noted that the problems had to do with Hasan's interactions with patients. He recalled Hasan as a "mostly very quiet" person who never spoke ill of the military or his country.
    "He swore an oath of loyalty to the military," Grieger said. "I didn't hear anything contrary to those oaths."

    But, more recently, federal agents grew suspicious.

    At least six months ago, Hasan came to the attention of law enforcement officials because of Internet postings about suicide bombings and other threats, including posts that equated suicide bombers to soldiers who throw themselves on a grenade to save the lives of their comrades.

    They had not confirmed Hasan is the author of the posting, and a formal investigation had not been opened before the shooting, said law enforcement officials who spoke on condition of anonymity because they are not authorized to discuss the case.
    Federal authorities seized Hasan's computer Friday during a search of his apartment in Killeen, Texas, said a U.S. military official who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the ongoing investigation.

    His anger was noted by a classmate, who said Hasan "viewed the war against terror" as a "war against Islam."

    Dr. Val Finnell, a classmate of Hasan's at the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, attended a master's in public health program in 2007-2008. Finnell says he got to know Hasan because the group of public health students took an environmental health class together. At the end of the class, everyone had to give a presentation. Classmates wrote on topics such as dry cleaning chemicals and mold in homes, but Finnell said Hasan chose the war against terror. Finnell described Hasan as a "vociferous opponent" of the terror war. Finnell said Hasan told classmates he was "a Muslim first and an American second."

    Hasan recently was involved in a spat with another Fort Hood soldier residing in his apartment complex, apparently related to his Muslim beliefs.

    The manager of the complex, John Thompson, said the other soldier, John Van de Walker, allegedly keyed Hasan's car and also removed and tore up a bumper sticker that read "Allah is Love." Thompson said Van de Walker had been in Iraq and was upset to learn that Hasan was Muslim.

    A report filed with Killeen police on Aug. 16 indicates that Hasan's vehicle, a 2006 Honda Civic, had been scratched by an unknown object causing an estimated $1,000 worth of damage. The report indicates that Van de Walker, 30, was arrested on Oct. 21 and charged with criminal mischief. The matter has been referred for prosecution, according to the report.

    The phone number for Van de Walker wasn't in service Friday, and Thompson, the apartment manager, said he had moved out of the complex.

    In an interview with The Washington Post, Hasan's aunt, Noel Hasan of Falls Church, Va., said he had been harassed about being a Muslim in the years after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks and he wanted to get out of the Army. She said he had sought a discharge for several years, and even offered to repay the cost of his medical training.
    Hasan was in the preparation stage of deployment, which can take months, though Army spokeswoman Col. Cathy Abbott was uncertain when Hasan was to leave.

    Abbott said Hasan was to deploy with an Army Reserve unit that provides what the military calls "behavioral health" counseling.

    Another military official said Hasan had indicated he didn't want to go to Iraq but was willing to serve in Afghanistan. The official did not have authorization to discuss the matter publicly and spoke on condition of anonymity.

    A different military official said Hasan's family has Palestinian roots. There have been reports that he was harassed for his Muslim religion, but the official says there is no indication Hasan filed a complaint with military officials about that.

    Alice Thompson, the manager at the apartment complex where Hasan lived, said he'd been living there since mid-August. Thompson said she didn't talk to him other than to say hello in passing. Thompson said he always answered her "How are you?" with "I am blessed."

    Noel Hasan said her nephew "did not make many friends" and would say "the military was his life."

    A cousin, Nader Hasan, told The New York Times that after counseling soldiers returning from Iraq and Afghanistan with post-traumatic stress disorder, Hasan knew the scars of war well.

    "He was mortified by the idea of having to deploy," Nader Hasan said. "He had people telling him on a daily basis the horrors they saw over there."

    Retired Army Col. Terry Lee, who said he worked with Hasan, told Fox News that Hasan had hoped President Barack Obama would pull troops out of Afghanistan and Iraq. Lee said Hasan got into frequent arguments with others in the armed forces who supported the wars, and had tried hard to prevent his pending deployment.

    Col. Kimberly Kesling, deputy commander of clinical services at Darnall Army Medical Center at Fort Hood, said she had known Hasan.

    "You wouldn't think that someone who works in your facility and provided excellent care for his patients, which he did, could do something like this," Kesling said. She described him as "a quiet man who wouldn't seek the limelight" and said she was shocked when she heard he was the suspect in the shootings.

    Hasan attended prayers regularly when he lived outside Washington, often in his Army uniform, said Faizul Khan, a former imam at a mosque Hasan attended in Silver Spring, Md. He said Hasan was a lifelong Muslim.

    "I got the impression that he was a committed soldier," Khan said. He spoke often with Hasan about Hasan's desire for a wife.

    On a form filled out by those seeking spouses through a program at the mosque, Hasan listed his birthplace as Arlington, Va., but his nationality as Palestinian, Khan said.
    "We hardly ever got to discussing politics," Khan said. "Mostly we were discussing religious matters, nothing too controversial, nothing like an extremist."

    Hasan earned his rank of major in April 2008, according to a July 2008 Army Times article.

    He served eight years as an enlisted soldier. Military records show he also served in the ROTC as an undergraduate at Virginia Tech in Blacksburg and received a bachelor's degree in biochemistry there in 1997.

    But college officials said Friday that Hasan graduated with honors in biochemistry in 1995 and there was no record of him serving in any ROTC program.

    He previously had attended Barstow Community College in Barstow, Calif., and Virginia Western Community College in Roanoke, Va., according to Virginia Tech records.


    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_fort_h...ooting_suspect



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