Is Hitler the only racist left?

[The Stranger]

First off, minerals rarely feed anyone. Diamonds are valuable, not edible.

in this economical system minerals do feed people. indirectly.

Richest fishgrounds? Hardly.

i should have said one of the most richest, i dont know if its the richest...

Africa's corrupt leaders help provide resources to the rest of the world, but there is nothing that Africa has that can not be found elsewhere.

if that is true then why dont the leave africa to its problems and get the stuff elsewhere? and there is nothing (almost) in the world that cannot be found in africa (talking about natural rescourses).

We all know the reason africa is such a mess politically.

[rory_20_uk]

in this economical system minerals do feed people. indirectly.


i should have said one of the most richest, i dont know if its the richest...


if that is true then why dont the leave africa to its problems and get the stuff elsewhere? and there is nothing (almost) in the world that cannot be found in africa (talking about natural rescourses).

We all know the reason africa is such a mess politically.

Minerals can indirectly feed people if a system exists where the minerals are extracted, and either directly or indirectly the people are paid in some form for this. In some parts of Africa the payment is in weaponry so they can continue killing each other, or to support the regieme

In many areas the West has decided not to obtain resources from Africa. Sadly, the glaring error in this thinking is twofold: China steps in and the black market steps in.

African countries seem uninterested in stopping their (fellow) dictators. South Africa has a lot of clout over Zimbabwe. Yet nothing for over 20 years.

I think that there are many reasons for Africa being in a mess.
Being an ex-colony? Many successful colonies elsewhere.
Poverty? Doesn't help, but it seems that although Nigeria should get billions from oil, the people are still poor.
Relics from the Cold War? Didn't help, but African countries manage to continue the traditions long after the sponsors left.

Funnily enough, people tend to like being free more than they like being oppressed.

What a useful observation!

But they like not dying from starvation even more.

[The Stranger]

Being an ex-colony? Many successful colonies elsewhere.

such as? the only ones i can think of (with similar colonial background) are india and brazil..

which succesful colony can you name where the (best/strongest) indiginous people were taken away, where they cut tribes into pieces with imaginary boundaries, promoted strife, exploited its natural rescourses, than left taking everything of use with them and at the moment the indiginous people still reign??

australia doesnt count... america doesnt count... hongkong and singapore might be on your list but the circumstances are hardly the same to that of africa... ill applaud you if you can name 10 countries...

[rory_20_uk]

such as? the only ones i can think of (with similar colonial background) are india and brazil..

which succesful colony can you name where the (best/strongest) indiginous people were taken away, where they cut tribes into pieces with imaginary boundaries, promoted strife, exploited its natural rescourses, than left taking everything of use with them and at the moment the indiginous people still reign??

australia doesnt count... america doesnt count... hongkong and singapore might be on your list but the circumstances are hardly the same to that of africa... ill applaud you if you can name 10 countries...

First off, there's been a few decades since Independence. Surely the reasonable peoples of Africa can re-draw the boundaries.

Who exploited the natural resources of England? English people! Did all benefit? No, the vast majority didn't. So why treat abroad any different? Press-gangs in the ports, conscription in the countryside. Poor houses and debtors prison, and deportation. In 1880 the life expectancy was 39 years. Life in the colonies was harsh, but white, English people were dropping like flies too.

Promoted strife? Doubt it. Strife is bad for business. Most colonies were initially taken to stop the threats to trade routes.
Taking everything? Like the Indian train lines? Or the buildings? Codes of law? Language? Democracy? Hmmmm... All the mineral wealth? No? What, exactly? To be cynical, most things weren't portable to take.

Indigenous I imagine includes the Maoris who were the only persons on New Zealand mainly thanks to them killing all the others. They were so warlike that they were the only indigenous peoples to have a treaty with the British. Obviously they learnt these skills plaiting flowers...

Here area few names that come to mind:

India
UAE
Malaysia
New Zealand
Ireland
Burmuda
Egypt?
Bahrain a colony in all but name
Kuwait [protectorate]
Cyprus - the invasion was hardly the British fault.
Hong Kong and Singapore are both areas of territory that either were or are self governing. Racially both were mixed and both have done extremelly well.
Most of the Caribbean were exploited, downtrodden farms and most are doing OK.

[The Stranger]

First off, there's been a few decades since Independence. Surely the reasonable peoples of Africa can re-draw the boundaries.

Who exploited the natural resources of England? English people! Did all benefit? No, the vast majority didn't. So why treat abroad any different? Press-gangs in the ports, conscription in the countryside. Poor houses and debtors prison, and deportation. In 1880 the life expectancy was 39 years. Life in the colonies was harsh, but white, English people were dropping like flies too.

Promoted strife? Doubt it. Strife is bad for business. Most colonies were initially taken to stop the threats to trade routes.
Taking everything? Like the Indian train lines? Or the buildings? Codes of law? Language? Democracy? Hmmmm... All the mineral wealth? No? What, exactly? To be cynical, most things weren't portable to take.

Indigenous I imagine includes the Maoris who were the only persons on New Zealand mainly thanks to them killing all the others. They were so warlike that they were the only indigenous peoples to have a treaty with the British. Obviously they learnt these skills plaiting flowers...

Here area few names that come to mind:

India
UAE
Malaysia
New Zealand
Ireland
Burmuda
Egypt?
Bahrain a colony in all but name
Kuwait [protectorate]
Cyprus - the invasion was hardly the British fault.
Hong Kong and Singapore are both areas of territory that either were or are self governing. Racially both were mixed and both have done extremelly well.
Most of the Caribbean were exploited, downtrodden farms and most are doing OK.

india i named already...

Malaysia doesnt count i think, did they take slaves away?
Ireland? you got to be joking me. Besides Ireland gets huge EU support.
Egypt, can't compare again... no slaves.
Bermuda? thats a small island chain, doubt the native inhabitants still live there.
Hong kong and Singapore, I might give you those...
Caribbean? Are there still any natives left? Don't think so... And they're not doing so well...

Apart from India? Name another big country...

[gaelic cowboy]

india i named already...

Malaysia doesnt count i think, did they take slaves away?
Ireland? you got to be joking me. Besides Ireland gets huge EU support.
Egypt, can't compare again... no slaves.
Bermuda? thats a small island chain, doubt the native inhabitants still live there.
Hong kong and Singapore, I might give you those...
Caribbean? Are there still any natives left? Don't think so... And they're not doing so well...

Apart from India? Name another big country...

All those ex colonies my own included have one thing in common a properly working civil society of native people who were able to run there own affairs. Not for the first time the British leave a place and leave a working civil service to run the affairs of government.

Irelands EU support is irrelevant all of it would be wasted without a properly functioning goverment to spend any support on infrastructure.

[rory_20_uk]

india i named already...

Malaysia doesnt count i think, did they take slaves away?
Ireland? you got to be joking me. Besides Ireland gets huge EU support.
Egypt, can't compare again... no slaves.
Bermuda? thats a small island chain, doubt the native inhabitants still live there.
Hong kong and Singapore, I might give you those...
Caribbean? Are there still any natives left? Don't think so... And they're not doing so well...

Apart from India? Name another big country...

In England the country has been invaded several times. Who are the Natives here? Possibly the Celts, but chances are they displaced earlier tribes. Slavery under the feudal system, followed by a man's freedom to either work or starve to death wherever he chose.

What is the big deal with Slavery? It's not something that is somehow unique to Africa. Most countries on the planet either have had or do have slavery in some form or another.

Natives in the Caribbean? So, being there for 3-400 hundred years or so doesn't count? And as for doing well, many Caribbean islands would disagree: Bahamas, Trinidad and Tobago, Grenada. All rubbing along. No civil wars, no begging for aid.

Most colonies were ruled by Europeans who were not native. Same as in Ireland. Ireland only recently got EU aid. It's been independent since after WW1.

Taking slaves from Africa did not ruin the entire continent. There weren't the numbers for starters, and secondly the continent did not suddenly blossom when this "yoke" was lifted. It's still a mess.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Taking slaves from Africa did not ruin the entire continent.

Indeed.

Until well into the 19th century, there were European slaves in Africa. Although not of the same scale as Africans taken by Europeans to the Americas, some estimates put the number of Europeans enslaved to Africa during the period of Atlantic slave trade alone as high as 1.5 million.

For a millenium, Mediterannean Europeans lived in constant danger of being raided and enslaved by Africans.


In the SouthEast of Europe, the Ottoman Empire systematically enslaved Europeans. Constantinople's population usually consited of about a quarter slaves, many from the Balkans. Men for the army, women as sex slaves. This didn't end until the 20th century.