The UK Taxpayers Alliance is led by Crooks

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Income tax of 50%? The 50% rate is only on earnings of over £150 000 and comes in next year. The basic rate is 20% and the higher rate is 40%. The first £6000 plus is tax free. Even if you take NI contributions, council tax and VAT etc. into account then the overall tax rate is nowhere near 50%. In 2007/8 net taxes were just below 37% of GDP. This will have gone up but 50%? I don't think so!

I pay as much in private pension as I do in NI, the two together come to 15% of my monthly pay packet, then I pay income tax, local tax, VAT, I pay duty on things like wine etc. I don't smoke or drive, so I don't pay those... Then there are the taxes corporations pay, whose services I use, and which cost I incure through their charges.

Tax is cumulative in that everything is ultimately paid for by the consumer. Oh, and let's not forget my "Student Loan" which is really just a graduate tax.

But mantaining the roads, hospital bills, education, pension, etc = people working to support themselves (though through the state).

No, because taxes etc. are collected and used by the executive, an arm of the State. The State is not a "real" thing Beskar, merely a constructive used to refer to our collective identity and interest. The people who run the executive work for themselves, doing a job for the State. Like any individual, their power needs to be as limited as possible because otherwise they can become a dangwer either through incompetence or malevolence.

[Duke of Gloucester]

I pay as much in private pension as I do in NI, the two together come to 15% of my monthly pay packet, then I pay income tax, local tax, VAT, I pay duty on things like wine etc. I don't smoke or drive, so I don't pay those... Then there are the taxes corporations pay, whose services I use, and which cost I incure through their charges.

Tax is cumulative in that everything is ultimately paid for by the consumer. Oh, and let's not forget my "Student Loan" which is really just a graduate tax.

Which ever way you cut it Phillipvs, it is not going to come to 50% of your income even if you took up driving. As for your student loan, it isn't a graduate tax, is you paying for that university education that allows you to be a doctor and perhaps actually earn enough to pay tax at the 50% rate unlike 99.4% of the UK population. Don't forget your loan only pays a small fraction of the cost of educating you. If you had your way and tax was reduced we would all be paying for more.

(Actually the idea of a graduate tax is an interesting one. It might be a more efficient way of funding higher education. There is a lot of admin involved in the current system. Inland revenue are set up do assess earnings so the admin there would be much cheaper)

suck it up, go out there and create wealth rather than spending your life soaking up public funding like a cancer, steadily withering the host from which you seek succor.

Spare us the right wing "public sector - bad, private sector good" nonsense. I would like to see these "wealth creators" making all that money without a proper road system, an educated work force, police to keep public order, and don't forget the armed forces that protect us from foreign agression which could take all that wealth away. This idea that the public sector consumes and the private sector creates is false. What about the firms that build all those aircraft carriers and high tech weaponry you advocate? Are they consumers or creators? Do I, as a teacher consume wealth, but the firm that fixes the school heating system create wealth? No. We are all contributing to the nation's well being and ecconomy. We all sell our time, skills and effort for a financial reward. Of course, I am not arguing that council clerks in Essex should keep their jobs when they are no longer required because of new technology any more than workers at Ford's Dagenham plant should. However I am refuting the idea that they are mere drones in what they do at the moment.

Nice to see you again DoG.

Thanks, IA. How are you enjoying the snow?

[InsaneApache]

Thanks, IA. How are you enjoying the snow?

Not much chance of getting to Denholm for my Christmas dinner is there?

[Furunculus]

Spare us the right wing "public sector - bad, private sector good" nonsense. I would like to see these "wealth creators" making all that money without a proper road system, an educated work force, police to keep public order, and don't forget the armed forces that protect us from foreign aggression which could take all that wealth away.

This idea that the public sector consumes and the private sector creates is false. What about the firms that build all those aircraft carriers and high tech weaponry you advocate?

Are they consumers or creators? Do I, as a teacher consume wealth, but the firm that fixes the school heating system create wealth? No. We are all contributing to the nation's well being and ecconomy. We all sell our time, skills and effort for a financial reward. Of course, I am not arguing that council clerks in Essex should keep their jobs when they are no longer required because of new technology any more than workers at Ford's Dagenham plant should. However I am refuting the idea that they are mere drones in what they do at the moment.

I have never argued that there should not be a civil service or public sector, merely noted my rank disgust that nearly 6 million people suck on the tax teat right now, which IMHO is far to high given that there are only ~30 million wealth creators to suckle them.

Ah those aircraft carriers; the ones from companies that generate a 20% world market share in defence exports, a not inconsiderable figure as a percentage of the value of UK exports, and a fact which helps make our balance of trade so much rosier? i have no problem with those makers of aircraft carriers.

What you do is valuable, i simply do not value it at a cost of >40% of GDP as i believe the extra value of extra public services is more than compensated for by the retardation of private wealth creation due to excessive tax burden.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Spare us the right wing "public sector - bad, private sector good" nonsense.

Very few on the right think that. Rather, we think that government should be cut as much as possible because the private sector generally does a better job at many things. A lot of the debate on the right tends to be about how much we should cut and transfer. Of course, there are also right-wingers who advocate more government and more public sector services.

[Idaho]

Very few on the right think that. Rather, we think that government should be cut as much as possible because the private sector generally does a better job at many things. A lot of the debate on the right tends to be about how much we should cut and transfer. Of course, there are also right-wingers who advocate more government and more public sector services.

The private sector does a very good job of funnelling profits to key people at the top. The same key people who build relationships with politicians. The same key people who get knighthoods and employ those same politicians as non-exec directors.

Both public and private have their problems - the former suffers from conservativism and inflexibility, the latter from graft and structural corruption.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

The private sector does a very good job of funnelling profits to key people at the top. The same key people who build relationships with politicians. The same key people who get knighthoods and employ those same politicians as non-exec directors.

Sure, suit yourself, I was just saying who believes what. In this case I wasn't providing an argument.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

The private sector does a very good job of funnelling profits to key people at the top. The same key people who build relationships with politicians. The same key people who get knighthoods and employ those same politicians as non-exec directors.

Both public and private have their problems - the former suffers from conservativism and inflexibility, the latter from graft and structural corruption.

Both suffer from all the problems you listed, just to different degrees because of the different protections and pressures they have.