There is something rotten in Australia

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

That's cynical and inhumane.

Unless of course you are sarcastic, but I don't know...

Beskar does have a point (how is it we are agreeing). You can take it to extremes, but there is definately an argument that you shouldn't accept every refugee without looking carefully at how much danger they are actually in.

About the Camps, if the people are treated well I think it is preferable to allowing them to dissapear into society-at-large, where they may become illegals and really be badly treated.

[HoreTore]

Beskar does have a point (how is it we are agreeing). You can take it to extremes, but there is definately an argument that you shouldn't accept every refugee without looking carefully at how much danger they are actually in.

I don't see what right you have to decide where I can live, who I can be friends with, who I can love or who I can work for.

I do not believe that a state should have that kind of power over us.

[Furunculus]

I don't see what right you have to decide where I can live, who I can be friends with, who I can love or who I can work for.

I do not believe that a state should have that kind of power over us.

i think there is a million BNP voters who absolutely want their government to operate stringent border controls, and many millions more who at least sympathise with the aim even if they are not willing to vote BNP to say so.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I don't see what right you have to decide where I can live, who I can be friends with, who I can love or who I can work for.

I do not believe that a state should have that kind of power over us.

On the other hand, you have no rights other than those acknowledged by your State.

Let's turn it around, what right do you have to come and live in my country if I don't want you to? I am a citizen, you are not; why shouldn't I be allowed to have a say who comes into my nation and is granted membership of the citizenry?

Otherwise, you just a situation where people come and take what they can from who they can, either peacfully or otherwise. The fact that this is exactly what your ancestors tried to do to some of mine rather proves the point.

[HoreTore]

i think there is a million BNP voters who absolutely want their government to operate stringent border controls, and many millions more who at least sympathise with the aim even if they are not willing to vote BNP to say so.

On the other hand, you have no rights other than those acknowledged by your State.

Let's turn it around, what right do you have to come and live in my country if I don't want you to? I am a citizen, you are not; why shouldn't I be allowed to have a say who comes into my nation and is granted membership of the citizenry?

Otherwise, you just a situation where people come and take what they can from who they can, either peacfully or otherwise. The fact that this is exactly what your ancestors tried to do to some of mine rather proves the point.

I don't really care about what fascists or whatever believe they can control - I still want their filthy bodies away from me. Just like I don't care what religious fundies believe, I will still continue my adultery and sodomy as much as I please.

Phillipvs; let's say you want to buy a house in Tinyidyllicenglishvillageington. I don't like you, and decide that you can move here, you'll have to stay back in Smoginfectedhellholeshire. Is it my right to tell you where you can or can't live? I'd say no. And I can't see why that should change just because of some arbitrary line on a map.

Also; why on earth should my potential partners be limited by that line as well? Why shouldn't I be allowed to be with the woman I love? Why should I be forced to live without her?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I don't really care about what fascists or whatever believe they can control - I still want their filthy bodies away from me. Just like I don't care what religious fundies believe, I will still continue my adultery and sodomy as much as I please.

Why do you hurl all this hatred around; I say that the members of a society should have a say in who is a part of that society and you call me a facist! Anyway, you say you want the filthy "facist" bodies away from you, isn't that the same thing.

Phillipvs; let's say you want to buy a house in Tinyidyllicenglishvillageington. I don't like you, and decide that you can move here, you'll have to stay back in Smoginfectedhellholeshire. Is it my right to tell you where you can or can't live? I'd say no. And I can't see why that should change just because of some arbitrary line on a map.

Lets be more explicit: If I want to emmigrate to Norway it is the right of the Norwegian State to bar me from entry if they believe I am unsuitable or harmful to Norwegian society.

Also; why on earth should my potential partners be limited by that line as well? Why shouldn't I be allowed to be with the woman I love? Why should I be forced to live without her?

Funny you should ask, my Mother married my Father and that ended the issue.

[HoreTore]

[QUOTE=Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla;2413554]Why do you hurl all this hatred around; I say that the members of a society should have a say in who is a part of that society and you call me a facist! Anyway, you say you want the filthy "facist" bodies away from you, isn't that the same thing.

I've never called you a fascist, I called the BNP that Furunculus brought up fascists And as far as I know they don't deny that claim, so it really should be completely uncontroversial to call them that...

Lets be more explicit: If I want to emmigrate to Norway it is the right of the Norwegian State to bar me from entry if they believe I am unsuitable or harmful to Norwegian society.

It is currently; and that's a right I don't want the state or society to have.

Funny you should ask, my Mother married my Father and that ended the issue.

Hah!

[Subotan]

Article Thirteen of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights states that:

* (1) Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state.
* (2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.

So if HoreTore was British, then PVC couldn't do or say anything if HoreTore moved into his town. On the other hand, if he was fleeing Norway, he has the right to leave but he doesn't have the right to enter the UK.

[Furunculus]

I don't really care about what fascists or whatever believe they can control - I still want their filthy bodies away from me. Just like I don't care what religious fundies believe, I will still continue my adultery and sodomy as much as I please.

i think you will find the vast majority of those 'fascists' are in fact merely good honest working class people who feel beset, and recognise that mainstream politics isn't interested in helping them.

I've never called you a fascist, I called the BNP that Furunculus brought up fascists And as far as I know they don't deny that claim, so it really should be completely uncontroversial to call them that...

ah, silly me, i was more concerned about what the voters want, you know; the plebs.

[HoreTore]

i think you will find the vast majority of those 'fascists' are in fact merely good honest working class people who feel beset, and recognise that mainstream politics isn't interested in helping them.
ah, silly me, i was more concerned about what the voters want, you know; the plebs.

A supporter of a fascist is also a fascist, or at best a complete idiot.

[Furunculus]

A supporter of a fascist is also a fascist, or at best a complete idiot.

or someone who realises that mainstream politics doesn't represent them, but a protest votes to a fringe party that the mainstream consensus wishes to remain an isolated fringe may result in a reappraisal of the mainstream consensus, and thus result in a more representative democracy.

anyone who thinks that the vast majority of those BNP votes were dyed-in-the-wool fascists is an idiot.

[Fragony]

A supporter of a fascist is also a fascist, or at best a complete idiot.

If a country wouldn't be led by idiots party's like the BNP wouldn't be a last resort for the majority of BNP-voters. In the meantime without any fanfare and no press at all we have now for 12 days lived in the Euro-Mediteranian partnership, look it up.

[miotas]

About the Camps, if the people are treated well I think it is preferable to allowing them to dissapear into society-at-large, where they may become illegals and really be badly treated.

Oh, I'm surprised. I didn't think you would agree so quickly that they should be let into the country.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Oh, I'm surprised. I didn't think you would agree so quickly that they should be let into the country.

Genuine Asylum Seekers should be looked after, but people with their cases unresolved should not be allowed to roam around the country, where they simply dissapear into the underbelly of society and become someone's indentured servants.

"Detention Centres" make perfect sense if they are used to sort out who should, and who should not, stay, but the process should be swift and transparent. So long as the centres are reasonably comfortable and people are not kept there over-long I think they're better than any of the alternatives.